I wanted to source where I got these ideas from:
For Plato, it comes from Timaeus. It says that not only women but animals too were formed out of men of lesser character:
"For our creators well knew that women and other animals would some day be framed out of men, and they further knew that many animals would require the use of nails for many purposes ; wherefore they fashioned in men at their first creation the rudiments of nails. For this purpose and for these reasons they caused skin, hair, and nails to grow at the extremities of the limbs."
"Of the men who came into the world, those who were cowards or led unrighteous lives may with reason be supposed to have changed into the nature of women in the second generation."
"Thus were created women and the female sex in general. But the race of birds was created out of innocent light-minded men, who, although their minds were directed toward heaven, imagined, in their simplicity, that the clearest demonstration of the things above was to be obtained by sight ; these were remodelled and transformed into birds, and they grew feathers instead of hair. The race of wild pedestrian animals, again, came from those who had no philosophy in any of their thoughts, and never considered at all about the nature of the heavens, because they had ceased to use the courses of the head, but followed the guidance of those parts of the soul which are in the breast. In consequence of these habits of theirs they had their front-legs and their heads resting upon the earth to which they were drawn by natural affinity ; and the crowns of their heads were elongated and of all sorts of shapes, into which the courses of the soul were crushed by reason of disuse. And this was the reason why they were created quadrupeds and polypods : God gave the more senseless of them the more support that they might be more attracted to the earth. And the most foolish of them, who trail their bodies entirely upon the ground and have no longer any need of feet, he made without feet to crawl upon the earth. The fourth class were the inhabitants of the water : these were made out of the most entirely senseless and ignorant of all, whom the transformers did not think any longer worthy of pure respiration, because they possessed a soul which was made impure by all sorts of transgression ; and instead of the subtle and pure medium of air, they gave them the deep and muddy sea to be their element of respiration ; and hence arose the race of fishes and oysters, and other aquatic animals, which have received the most remote habitations as a punishment of their outlandish ignorance. These are the laws by which animals pass into one another, now, as ever, changing as they lose or gain wisdom and folly."
Do read the whole text for yourselves. Is this all supposed to be allegory, because it appears to be very literal to me. Perhaps Plato never said these things?
For Aristotle's views:
"In human beings, more males born deformed than females. The female itself is a deformity, though a natural deformity."
This appears to be a book on biology from Aristotle (Generation fo animals) , again I don't think the intention is meant to be allegorical here, but scientific.
From Politics Book 1:
"Moreover, the relation of male to female is that of natural superior to natural inferior, and that of ruler to ruled. But, in fact, the same holds true of all human beings."
In regards to politics, he first says men are natural leaders and womem are natural followers, which is something I agree with. 99% of women want a man to lead them and men feel at their best when they're in charge and naturally men desire to be in charge of things while women for the most part prefer to follow. This obviously doesn't justify abuse, or any other form of false, corrupted and tyranical masculinity that the abrahamics developed. Real leaders are followed voluntarily, not through any form of fear or force. The Gods also lead this way, through choice, unlike the "god" of the jews who has to threaten. Abrahamism perfectly embodies the ruling form of tyranny as described by Plato.
He also thought that slaves, women and non-greeks lacked ruling qualities. Amongst Greeks, he differentiates women from slaves, but makes no distinction between non-Greek women and slaves:
"There is a natural distinction, of course, between what is female and
what is servile. For, unlike the blacksmiths who make the Delphian
knife, nature produces nothing skimpily, but instead makes a single
thing for a single TASK, because every tool will be made best if it serves
to perform one task rather than many.
Among non-Greeks, however, a
WOMAN and a slave occupy the same position. The reason is that they do
not have anything that naturally rules; rather their community consists
of a male and a female slave. That is why our poets say "it is proper for
Greeks to rule non-Greeks,"implying that non-Greek and slave are in
nature the same."
According to Artistole, women (I assume he means Greek women here only), unlike slaves and non-Greeks, have the deliberative part of a soul but lack authority, therefore cannot be rulers, since they don't have a complete virtue of character.
"It is clear, then, that the
same holds in the other cases as well, so that most instances of ruling
and being ruled are natural. For free rules slaves, male rules female, and
man rules child in different ways, because, while the parts of the soul
are present in all these people, they are present in different ways. The
deliberative part of the soul is entirely missing from a slave; a woman
has it but it lacks authority; a child has it but it is incompletely devel
oped. We must suppose, therefore, that the same necessarily holds of the
virtues of character too: all must share in them, but not in the same way; is
rather, each must have a share sufficient to enable him to perform his
own task.
Hence a ruler must have virtue of character complete, since
his task is unqualifiedly that of a master craftsman, and reason is a mas-
ter craftsman, but each of the others must have as much as pertains to
him. It is evident, then, that all those mentioned have virtue of charac-
ter, and that temperance, courage, and justice of a man are not the same
as those of a woman, as Socrates supposed: the one courage is that of a
ruler, the other that of an assistant, and similarly in the case of the other
virtues too.
If we investigate this matter in greater detail, it will become clear. For
people who talk in generalities, saying that virtue is a good condition of
the soul, or correct action, or something of that sort, are deceiving
themselves. It is far better to enumerate the virtues, as Gorgias does,
than to define them in this general way.
Consequently, we must take what the poet says about a woman as our guide in every case: "To a
woman silence is a crowning glory" whereas this does not apply to a
man. Since a child is incompletely developed, it is clear that his virtue
too does not belong to him in relation to himself but in relation to his
end and his leader. The same holds of a slave in relation to his master.
But we said that a slave is useful for providing the necessities, so he
clearly needs only a small amount of virtue-just so much as will pre
vent him from inadequately performing his tasks through intemperance
or cowardice."
I'll get the quotes for Hesiod later. I sourced everything I quoted so you can read for yourselves. Use the find tool to find the quotes quickly.
![Voice of Enki [TG]](/data/avatars/m/0/84.jpg?1705131368){kind=avatar}
