---In
[email protected], <svenbugado@... wrote:
@m_18 Agreed, and my example is my own sister and some former "best friends" with pussy atitude and failling me after I help them. I broke my hand beating someone for the pussies when they had no courage, and they left me in middle of the "battlefield" when the job was done.
But I guess if we aren't wise enought before the events, we must learn with its consequences.
I felt so easy all my life to cut ties with people, even them being really important before. Very good influence from Pluto, I see this intensity as a way to be free, leaving what doesnt matter and sticking to the important things.
---In
[email protected], <
[email protected] wrote:
It isn't unusual for a Plutonian to completely cut ties, friendships, etc., etc. in a heart beat. If they can't do so because they have to still be around them such as in a working environment, they will act as if the other person doesn't even exist.
I work at home for that very reason. (Truthfully, there are more reasons, however ....) I generally can't stand most people anyway. Call that attitude whatever you want. I don't care. (Plutonian attitude as well.)
Most people either love me or hate me. Some people go from loving me to hating me as well. I wouldn't have it any other way.
From: "f.follets@..." <f.follets@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: [JoS_Astrology] RE: Moon conjuct Pluto is self-destructive?
I have quite a few personal stories about hard Moon-Pluto aspects and lack/excess of an element.
My mother died when I was three from a sudden heart attack (or something, her death was not really investigated). Literally, one day she was there and in the next she was not. I went to live with my father, but not without the ever strong presence of my very plutonian grandmother (my mother's mother), who even has Pluto in Cancer in the 4th house. She was so deeply connected with my mother that she couldn't let her go, it's been almost 20 years and she still begrudges everything related to my mother's death as well as other nasty stuff from ther past.
I also happened to live with a professional astrologer for several months last year. I was new and alone in another city and her son (who was my friend, but didn't live with her) said she would have me if we shared the expenses in half. I obviously accepted since she seemed to be a very nice woman. She was very experienced and as I was learned in astrology as well, we became very close, very quickly. I met her entire family, became close friends with one of her daughters, met all of her closest friends and it was like we had known each other forever. She started treating me as something of a son.
One thing rubbed me the wrong way, though, as I couldn't understand why would her son and two daughters not want to live with her. They all had different fathers, all of their fathers had left her and all of them were very clear stating that though they loved her, she was an extremely difficult person to live with and preferred to stay at a healthy distance.
I could see where that was coming from, as she had Pluto in Virgo exactly conjunct her ascendant and Mars conjunct her Moon in Cancer, but couldn't really see it in her immediatly as she was really, really nice... it was not very long however until I started noticing all the signs that she was an EXTREMELY controlling person, who would only have her way, and ONLY her way for everything. She would have sudden extreme emotinal explosions and threw tantrums as if she were a child (she had Uranus in Leo, quite close to her ascendant as well), not to mention that she would nitpick every little fault in everything she saw. She was extremely obsessive about order and cleanliness as well.
Eventually she started having some problems with money as she was losing a lot of her clients and she started to become even more unstable. I helped her any way I could and paid pretty much all the bills in this period. At one point she "asked" for my participation in a new astrology project she came up with to get some money, but I declined since it involved showing our images on the internet and I wasn't comfortable with that. The next day she simply threw me out of the house, even after all the help I gave her. No questions asked, no explanations given. All the bonds I had formed with her were cut in a few hours.
-----------------------------------
These are the strongest factual evidences I have of my exact Moon-Pluto square (0º00' orb). I tend to become involved with strongly plutonian mother figures, form strong bonds with them very quickly and then experience sudden (often traumatic) separations. Bonds are something of a taboo for me and that's caused me a lot of trouble ever since I was a child. Not only that, I also have Virgo in the 4th House, fitting with their overall profile. My grandmother is extremely critical of others, an absolute neat freak, as is my stepmother (Sun and 4 other planets in Virgo).
Of course I could only understand and start working on that when I learned astrology.
Incidentally, this astrologer shared some of her experiences with me and said pretty much exactly what Maxine said. Most people with a lack of a certain element tend to overcompensate it somehow and attract situations related to them: people with little to no air are generally given to study, they always search for more information (even if not formally) and tend to hone their communication skills; people with little to no earth will be always looking for material comfort and all kinds of security even if they have plenty of it, it will never be enough for them; people with little to no fire will do their very best to be noticed by others and people with little to no water will tend to be emotional and go through many emotional situations.
The opposite can also be true: with an excess, this element will be so strong and so natural in this person's makeup that he/she will either deal with it very well or neglect it completely, concealing its excess, even though it *is* still there and will show up in certain situations. I've personally noticed that people with little to no water and lots of air tend to be most often the overly emotional ones, those who explode in tears and suffer many emotional ups and downs.
---In
[email protected], <maxine.dietrich666@... wrote:
I came across your message when approving messages. These groups are so screwed up, I don't normally reply. I can't reply back to this post, if there are any more questions. Pluto/Moon aspects usually relate to one's mother and you mention below she is domineering. This is your Pluto/Moon conjunction. The Moon has to do with one's mother. Pluto/Moon aspects, especially the hard aspects and even more so if they are very tight, indicate a domineering/possessive mother and/or a very close relationship with one's mother. In some cases, the mother relationship can be very close through one's adult years. The father is ruled by the Sun. Pluto/Sun aspects indicate the very same with one's father. The 4th house Pluto also often indicates the same and can be both the mother and the father. In nearly all cases, the parental influence is extremely strong. I knew a man who had a very tight Sun/Pluto square and he had no father. This affected him deeply. Whether the parent is in the life or is absent, the influence is very strong. When reading a chart, though, you have to look at all of the chart, the houses, and such. Say someone with the Pluto/Moon has a 4th house Saturn; then, the mother's influence can be harmful and destructive. It is the same with a hard Saturn/Moon aspect in addition to the Pluto/Moon. I knew a man who had a Pluto/Moon opposition. His Moon was in Capricorn, which has a Saturn-like influence over one's emotions [emotional needs not met]. He had a third house Saturn [siblings], and Scorpio on the cusp of the 3rd house. He had a close relationship with his mother for all of his life. Mother would telephone on a very frequent basis and he would bring his family to mother's house nearly every weekend and all holidays for a meal and to visit. Mother favored the younger brother to an extreme [Saturn in the third- problem with a sibling], and Scorpio on the cusp, indicating jealousy of a sibling. He, himself had an obsession with his mother, always wanting her approval and love which he never got. The younger brother also had a Pluto/Moon aspect, as she was very controlling of him as well. I saw this go on for over 40 years. The younger brother, who was spoiled to an extreme, had Jupiter in Aries, as he was extremely self-centered. There was an eldest sister and she moved to a far away state, and escaped some of this, but the mother still kept in very close contact with her as well and would visit her regularly every year and the sister would come home for the Yule season and such. Actress Judy Garland, who played Dorothy in the 1939 Wizard of Oz, got that part at 14 through the “casting couch.” Her mother made her sleep with dirty old men at that young age and even worse and any knowledgeable astrologer can see the rotten mother influence in her chart. Virgo rules her fourth house of the mother. Virgo on the 4th often gives a very critical mother who can also be a neat freak. Saturn at 0 of Libra [very critical degree] in the 4th house indicates a hard family life and problems with the mother. Ruler of her 4th; Mercury is in the 12th of undoings and misfortune, and is at 0 of Cancer, another very critical degree, exactly squaring Saturn. Adding into this, her Moon at 29 of Sagittarius [mother] is in very tight square aspect to Saturn, again- problems with the mother; anything from emotional needs not being met to emotional and physical abuse. Marilyn Monroe was another, who had a bad mother influence. Her mother went insane when Marilyn was very young and had to be institutionalized, leaving Marilyn an orphan who was placed in over 15 different foster homes during her childhood and orphanages. Saturn in her 4th house is at 21 of Scorpio, conjunct fixed star Unukalhai of loss. This Saturn also squares her Aquarius Moon. The Saturn in her chart is also the singleton of a bucket configuration. The single planet “drives” the entire chart, meaning, it has a much stronger influence than the other planets, both in the personality and the events in one’s life. It is a stand out planet. Her unhappy childhood never left her and was the focus of causing her life-long emotional problems. Scorpio on the cusp of her 4th is rules by Pluto at 13 degrees of Cancer, right on the cusp of her 12th house at 13 of Cancer. 13 degrees of cardinal signs is also a critical degree, giving the planet a stronger influence. The above two examples are what I am referring to in reading a chart accurately, as with the bad Moon aspects, there are many more placements and aspects that support the bad mother influence. The more there are like this, the worse the situation is. Also, a while ago in this group, there were posts regarding a lack of an element. Helen Keller, blind and deaf from early childhood, with her ruler at 15 of Leo [degree that often brings physical problems regarding sight and/or hearing and other] and no planets in air signs [communications and senses], and only one planet in an air house, spent most of her life communicating. She wrote books and from what I understand, even lectured to audiences. Point being, those who lack an element often manifest that element in an entirely different way. The lack of air and her ruler at 15 of Leo made her blind and deaf, but she did communicate. Just as for example, someone with no water signs. This does not make one cold and callous. Quite the contrary. It makes for one who expresses and experiences their emotions differently. I know someone who has no water and this person is exceptionally caring and has very deep feelings, and is very compassionate. Those who lack an element express that element differently than those who have planets in the element. High Priestess Maxine Dietrich
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