Harry said:
ShadowTheRaven said:So this little attempt at starting a new religion and calling it "Creativity", having no key tenants other than racial pride and loyalty and other than that no values to live by, no higher being to believe in, no life lessons, just RaHoWa. It's Salafism with a different name, except it applies to whites not arabs.
It'd be easier to influence new Pagan movements such as the Asatru Folk Assembly, regardless of what anyone here thinks of it as one of the Pagan NS counter-arguments against Christianity is "How can you hate jews when you worship one?" there's no need to create a new religion and have it based on RaHoWa. I don't know who came up with this bunk, but this 21st Century Robespierre is trying too hard.
Lydia said:ShadowTheRaven said:So this little attempt at starting a new religion and calling it "Creativity", having no key tenants other than racial pride and loyalty and other than that no values to live by, no higher being to believe in, no life lessons, just RaHoWa. It's Salafism with a different name, except it applies to whites not arabs.
It'd be easier to influence new Pagan movements such as the Asatru Folk Assembly, regardless of what anyone here thinks of it as one of the Pagan NS counter-arguments against Christianity is "How can you hate jews when you worship one?" there's no need to create a new religion and have it based on RaHoWa. I don't know who came up with this bunk, but this 21st Century Robespierre is trying too hard.
Klassen's books (Creativity) are in Satan's Library and recommended for Whites to read. It is much more than what you wrote about it here. And it was an important step in un-brainwashing Whites from xianity and (((multiculturalism))). And it was from last century, not 21st.
Parts of his writings have been quoted in sermons by HPS Maxine.
The only fault with Klassen's writings, is the complete lack of the spiritual.
Stormblood said:I think that "21st century Robespierre" is referred to Harry, not Klassen.
Stormblood said:Lydia said:ShadowTheRaven said:So this little attempt at starting a new religion and calling it "Creativity", having no key tenants other than racial pride and loyalty and other than that no values to live by, no higher being to believe in, no life lessons, just RaHoWa. It's Salafism with a different name, except it applies to whites not arabs.
It'd be easier to influence new Pagan movements such as the Asatru Folk Assembly, regardless of what anyone here thinks of it as one of the Pagan NS counter-arguments against Christianity is "How can you hate jews when you worship one?" there's no need to create a new religion and have it based on RaHoWa. I don't know who came up with this bunk, but this 21st Century Robespierre is trying too hard.
Klassen's books (Creativity) are in Satan's Library and recommended for Whites to read. It is much more than what you wrote about it here. And it was an important step in un-brainwashing Whites from xianity and (((multiculturalism))). And it was from last century, not 21st.
Parts of his writings have been quoted in sermons by HPS Maxine.
The only fault with Klassen's writings, is the complete lack of the spiritual.
I think that "21st century Robespierre" is referred to Harry, not Klassen.
ShadowTheRaven said:except it applies to whites not arabs.
ShadowTheRaven said:Stormblood said:I think that "21st century Robespierre" is referred to Harry, not Klassen.
No, I was comparing Robespierre to Klassen.
Harry said:I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
ShadowTheRaven said:Harry said:I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
It only took me 5 seconds to do a reverse image search on that guy and find out that he's Marios Lekkas, a model born in Athens, Greece.
I never said Greek people are Arab, and no, Arab people are not the result of black and white mixing. Races evolve because of their regions. Native Americans were originally Siberians that crossed the Bering Straight into North America and dwelled for tens of thousands of years causing them to appear distinct from a typical Siberian. So wouldn't it make more sense to say that Arabs dwelled around Iraq, Syria, and Iran coming out of the Caucasus Mountains? How do you think white people became white people? Because we've lived in cold climates for tens of thousands of years, so our skin tones are lighter because we require less sunlight to maintain homeostasis. It's basic science, dude.
We are white because our Gods are white, lol, not some kind of ice age that never happened.ShadowTheRaven said:Harry said:I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
It only took me 5 seconds to do a reverse image search on that guy and find out that he's Marios Lekkas, a model born in Athens, Greece.
I never said Greek people are Arab, and no, Arab people are not the result of black and white mixing. Races evolve because of their regions. Native Americans were originally Siberians that crossed the Bering Straight into North America and dwelled for tens of thousands of years causing them to appear distinct from a typical Siberian. So wouldn't it make more sense to say that Arabs dwelled around Iraq, Syria, and Iran coming out of the Caucasus Mountains? How do you think white people became white people? Because we've lived in cold climates for tens of thousands of years, so our skin tones are lighter because we require less sunlight to maintain homeostasis. It's basic science, dude.
Harry said:ShadowTheRaven said:Harry said:I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
It only took me 5 seconds to do a reverse image search on that guy and find out that he's Marios Lekkas, a model born in Athens, Greece.
I never said Greek people are Arab, and no, Arab people are not the result of black and white mixing. Races evolve because of their regions. Native Americans were originally Siberians that crossed the Bering Straight into North America and dwelled for tens of thousands of years causing them to appear distinct from a typical Siberian. So wouldn't it make more sense to say that Arabs dwelled around Iraq, Syria, and Iran coming out of the Caucasus Mountains? How do you think white people became white people? Because we've lived in cold climates for tens of thousands of years, so our skin tones are lighter because we require less sunlight to maintain homeostasis. It's basic science, dude.
the real Arabs right now are from the gulf countries which are saudi arabia, bahrain,uae,oman,Kuwait. iran etc
ShadowTheRaven said:I never said Greek people are Arab, and no, Arab people are not the result of black and white mixing. Races evolve because of their regions. Native Americans were originally Siberians that crossed the Bering Straight into North America and dwelled for tens of thousands of years causing them to appear distinct from a typical Siberian. So wouldn't it make more sense to say that Arabs dwelled around Iraq, Syria, and Iran coming out of the Caucasus Mountains? How do you think white people became white people? Because we've lived in cold climates for tens of thousands of years, so our skin tones are lighter because we require less sunlight to maintain homeostasis. It's basic science, dude.
Lydia said:Apparently you are not familiar with Satanism. Whites are the direct blood descendants from the Gods, which is why we are White like them. Please study, before stating bullshit and harmful theories that the jews have taught us. Because yes this is harmful, as it makes Whites forget our ancestry.
Jewish teachings have NO PLACE in this subforum.
Lydia said:ShadowTheRaven said:So this little attempt at starting a new religion and calling it "Creativity", having no key tenants other than racial pride and loyalty and other than that no values to live by, no higher being to believe in, no life lessons, just RaHoWa. It's Salafism with a different name, except it applies to whites not arabs.
It'd be easier to influence new Pagan movements such as the Asatru Folk Assembly, regardless of what anyone here thinks of it as one of the Pagan NS counter-arguments against Christianity is "How can you hate jews when you worship one?" there's no need to create a new religion and have it based on RaHoWa. I don't know who came up with this bunk, but this 21st Century Robespierre is trying too hard.
Klassen's books (Creativity) are in Satan's Library and recommended for Whites to read. It is much more than what you wrote about it here. And it was an important step in un-brainwashing Whites from xianity and (((multiculturalism))). And it was from last century, not 21st.
Parts of his writings have been quoted in sermons by HPS Maxine.
The only fault with Klassen's writings, is the complete lack of the spiritual.
ConsistentMeditator said:
Lydia said:ConsistentMeditator said:
I"m sorry but I don't have time to read long posts and only skimmed. Klassen wrote a bit extreme yes, but to shake Whites out of the jewish programming.
.
ShadowTheRaven said:Lydia said:Apparently you are not familiar with Satanism. Whites are the direct blood descendants from the Gods, which is why we are White like them. Please study, before stating bullshit and harmful theories that the jews have taught us. Because yes this is harmful, as it makes Whites forget our ancestry.
Jewish teachings have NO PLACE in this subforum.
....are you fucking kidding me? I'm not denying that whites are the blood descendants from the Gods I'm saying that the Gods coming down to Earth, and poof, all of a sudden white people exist sounds like complete nonsense there must be a physical reason why white people are white people. Please quote where I have denied such?
ConsistentMeditator said:Lydia said:ShadowTheRaven said:So this little attempt at starting a new religion and calling it "Creativity", having no key tenants other than racial pride and loyalty and other than that no values to live by, no higher being to believe in, no life lessons, just RaHoWa. It's Salafism with a different name, except it applies to whites not arabs.
It'd be easier to influence new Pagan movements such as the Asatru Folk Assembly, regardless of what anyone here thinks of it as one of the Pagan NS counter-arguments against Christianity is "How can you hate jews when you worship one?" there's no need to create a new religion and have it based on RaHoWa. I don't know who came up with this bunk, but this 21st Century Robespierre is trying too hard.
Klassen's books (Creativity) are in Satan's Library and recommended for Whites to read. It is much more than what you wrote about it here. And it was an important step in un-brainwashing Whites from xianity and (((multiculturalism))). And it was from last century, not 21st.
Parts of his writings have been quoted in sermons by HPS Maxine.
The only fault with Klassen's writings, is the complete lack of the spiritual.
Those writings basically have no values/morals, though. It's value drift to the extreme, where everything is permissible for the sake of an end result of the white race surviving. For example, this could lead to situations where the government does forced sterilizations on people deemed unfit and restricts access to marriage, making it so anyone could potentially be targeted by the government depending on their changing whims. That goes against the entire Enlightenment's attitude towards free thought/self determination as a reaction to Christian oppression and leads everything towards a totalitarian society like China's, where the government might choose to steal your organs any day if it decides you're a bad citizen and others deserve them more than you do. There's no moral value system in Klassen's works that would logically prevent the government from enforcing a China-type organ stealing situation on those the government deems genetically unfit to reproduce, or at the very least forced sterilization or prohibition of marriage, which already achieves the same end result, that the government is allowed to freely commit violence on the people as part of basic law.
Essentially, the entire worldview he concocts centers solely around the white race existing and caring nothing for any of the others, but nobody really believes in this kind of morality in real life. There is no way it's ever becoming widespread because its counter to most people's intuitions and sense of justice. Even the mainstream view of this site is that all races but the Jews are being oppressed and that they should all be freed, not that the 'inferior mud races' should be diminished as much as possible or exterminated or oppressed and so on as Ben Klassen says. The joyofsatan.org articles are pretty clear on this.
Even HoodedCobra, the most cynical mod here, who effectively seems to believe reality is inherently amoral and thus that there is no real objective morality at all, still usually revolves his arguments around freedom in one way or another while occasionally making off handed comments about how Europe is being invaded by monkeys. Nobody really believes in this 'Nazi' oppression ideology that Ben Klassen promotes, not even on a site like this of all places. Maybe Harry, who is the only person who commented posting a similar view to yours in this thread, and only by linking it. That's about it. And even he just said he thought it was a good book, not that he was trying to start anything.
So, I am just going to turn this into a question you can answer if you want to spend the time on elaborating your ideology. What do you honestly hope will happen in the future? Do you want any of Ben Klassen's ideology to become widespread and reach power? Or do you only care to the extent that you agree with him on Whites being superior and needing to be preserved in some way, but not to the extent that you agree with his beliefs about how anything that could be done should be done to preserve whites? Or some other set of views I wouldn't be able to anticipate? Your worldview is one thing but your expectation of what should actually manifest from it is another.
If you want to know my personal view, I think that immigration should be limited as much as possible in the European countries and the USA, but that outright expelling people en mass is a very different matter, especially if they've already been born where they live. It would be good if welfare for immigrants was reduced and their staying at the cost of natives was disincentivized, while higher birthrates were incentivized among the native population through government action, but actually expelling people who are already born in the country is very different and doesn't make sense. It's not as if other nations would be obliged to accept the plan of the European countries and admit so many people. Forced sterilization and other things would be totally impossible to enforce in real life unless you had a military ruled society where freedoms were oppressed, and that really makes no sense, I think nobody today would want to live in such a China style dystopian society. The basic principle I'm saying here is that the meditations and so on being released here are freeing people's minds and increasing their knowledge, and this should move people to choose that which is best for them and their countries without relying on brute force.Beyond that, I am not just making a utilitarian argument, but saying that there should be some sort of stable value system which respects individual freedoms underlying the constitutions of the governments without definining itself in a solely utilitarian fashion aimed at only survival of a certain group, or else you can get value drift like this. Hopefully that makes things clear.
Lydia said:@ShadowRaven, it sounded like you were talking about the out of africa theory, mentioning whites getting white skin simply from living north.
HP Mageson666 said:Its foolish to compare Klassen's racial socialism which is his version of NS expanded to all White People to Communist China which is just run by Kikes to prey on Gentiles.
Okay. I get it if you're busy.Lydia said:Lydia said:ConsistentMeditator said:
I"m sorry but I don't have time to read long posts and only skimmed. Klassen wrote a bit extreme yes, but to shake Whites out of the jewish programming.
.
^Btw was not trying to be rude or antyhing, I literally just don't have time, barely for emails either currently.
All you’re doing is comparing a communist jewish system with a White socialism that is meant to save and preserve our race. From what you’re saying it seems you don’t really understand much about NS. In Ben Klassen’s system nobody is gonna kill non whites unless there is a violent opposition towards Whites themselves. It’s not like you get killed based on your race.ConsistentMeditator said:HP Mageson666 said:Its foolish to compare Klassen's racial socialism which is his version of NS expanded to all White People to Communist China which is just run by Kikes to prey on Gentiles.
I didn't say that they are the same though. I just pointed out that there is a key similarity, both his ideal system and China's have a militaristic state and a system of human rights where anyone deemed genetically unfit can be sterilized/euthanized/etc by the State. His ideal system claiming to have a good goal of improving the race doesn't change that it's totalitarian and requires military rule to be enforced. Fundamentally, if you're a citizen in his ideal state, you're subject to government approved violence at any time.
It is not like a normal legal system where if the laws are changed, anything deemed an offense by the new laws cannot be punished if it was committed before. His belief system that anyone can be punished automatically or expelled and etc if deemed racially inferior goes fundamentally against the morality behind the constitutions of European states and the USA. For example, there is a dictator in both Communist China and in Klassen's ideal state. Yes, Communist China is all about destroying the populace, but I think you're not fundamentally understanding the different view of human rights and morality here. It's not just about the end result, even though that is very important. It is also about the fundamental view of what constitutes a crime. Is existing a crime if you're the wrong race, or are crimes based on your actual actions? It's a very important distinction which most normal people would quickly point out to you in an argument. Doesn't seem like it's discussed that much here, but it's of great importance and skipping it is basically skipping the entire premise of morality.
ConsistentMeditator said:I didn't say that they are the same though. I just pointed out that there is a key similarity, both his ideal system and China's have a militaristic state and a system of human rights where anyone deemed genetically unfit can be sterilized/euthanized/etc by the State. His ideal system claiming to have a good goal of improving the race doesn't change that it's totalitarian and requires military rule to be enforced. Fundamentally, if you're a citizen in his ideal state, you're subject to government approved violence at any time.
It is not like a normal legal system where if the laws are changed, anything deemed an offense by the new laws cannot be punished if it was committed before. His belief system that anyone can be punished automatically or expelled and etc if deemed racially inferior goes fundamentally against the morality behind the constitutions of European states and the USA. For example, there is a dictator in both Communist China and in Klassen's ideal state. Yes, Communist China is all about destroying the populace, but I think you're not fundamentally understanding the different view of human rights and morality here. It's not just about the end result, even though that is very important. It is also about the fundamental view of what constitutes a crime. Is existing a crime if you're the wrong race, or are crimes based on your actual actions? It's a very important distinction which most normal people would quickly point out to you in an argument. Doesn't seem like it's discussed that much here, but it's of great importance and skipping it is basically skipping the entire premise of morality.
ConsistentMeditator said:I didn't say that they are the same though. I just pointed out that there is a key similarity, both his ideal system and China's have a militaristic state and a system of human rights where anyone deemed genetically unfit can be sterilized/euthanized/etc by the State. His ideal system claiming to have a good goal of improving the race doesn't change that it's totalitarian and requires military rule to be enforced. Fundamentally, if you're a citizen in his ideal state, you're subject to government approved violence at any time.
It is not like a normal legal system where if the laws are changed, anything deemed an offense by the new laws cannot be punished if it was committed before. His belief system that anyone can be punished automatically or expelled and etc if deemed racially inferior goes fundamentally against the morality behind the constitutions of European states and the USA. For example, there is a dictator in both Communist China and in Klassen's ideal state. Yes, Communist China is all about destroying the populace, but I think you're not fundamentally understanding the different view of human rights and morality here. It's not just about the end result, even though that is very important. It is also about the fundamental view of what constitutes a crime. Is existing a crime if you're the wrong race, or are crimes based on your actual actions? It's a very important distinction which most normal people would quickly point out to you in an argument. Doesn't seem like it's discussed that much here, but it's of great importance and skipping it is basically skipping the entire premise of morality.
Aquarius said:All you’re doing is comparing a communist jewish system with a White socialism that is meant to save and preserve our race. From what you’re saying it seems you don’t really understand much about NS. In Ben Klassen’s system nobody is gonna kill non whites unless there is a violent opposition towards Whites themselves. It’s not like you get killed based on your race.ConsistentMeditator said:HP Mageson666 said:Its foolish to compare Klassen's racial socialism which is his version of NS expanded to all White People to Communist China which is just run by Kikes to prey on Gentiles.
I didn't say that they are the same though. I just pointed out that there is a key similarity, both his ideal system and China's have a militaristic state and a system of human rights where anyone deemed genetically unfit can be sterilized/euthanized/etc by the State. His ideal system claiming to have a good goal of improving the race doesn't change that it's totalitarian and requires military rule to be enforced. Fundamentally, if you're a citizen in his ideal state, you're subject to government approved violence at any time.
It is not like a normal legal system where if the laws are changed, anything deemed an offense by the new laws cannot be punished if it was committed before. His belief system that anyone can be punished automatically or expelled and etc if deemed racially inferior goes fundamentally against the morality behind the constitutions of European states and the USA. For example, there is a dictator in both Communist China and in Klassen's ideal state. Yes, Communist China is all about destroying the populace, but I think you're not fundamentally understanding the different view of human rights and morality here. It's not just about the end result, even though that is very important. It is also about the fundamental view of what constitutes a crime. Is existing a crime if you're the wrong race, or are crimes based on your actual actions? It's a very important distinction which most normal people would quickly point out to you in an argument. Doesn't seem like it's discussed that much here, but it's of great importance and skipping it is basically skipping the entire premise of morality.
If it's a strawman, then what is the right view that you think is correct? If debate shuts down the moment I ask about specific issues there's no way to get to the heart of things and all the detailed answers. That just shuts down conversation and prevents the full truth from being revealed. For the sake of simplicity I'm going to ask the same list of questions from you and Aquarius as I am looking for a clear answer here. Either on your own personal moral views of what's right and wrong, what you think Ben Klassen's were, or both.HP Mageson666 said:I am not arguing your strawman.
Let me guess, all of this offends you and you probabily aren’t white right?ConsistentMeditator said:Aquarius said:All you’re doing is comparing a communist jewish system with a White socialism that is meant to save and preserve our race. From what you’re saying it seems you don’t really understand much about NS. In Ben Klassen’s system nobody is gonna kill non whites unless there is a violent opposition towards Whites themselves. It’s not like you get killed based on your race.ConsistentMeditator said:I didn't say that they are the same though. I just pointed out that there is a key similarity, both his ideal system and China's have a militaristic state and a system of human rights where anyone deemed genetically unfit can be sterilized/euthanized/etc by the State. His ideal system claiming to have a good goal of improving the race doesn't change that it's totalitarian and requires military rule to be enforced. Fundamentally, if you're a citizen in his ideal state, you're subject to government approved violence at any time.
It is not like a normal legal system where if the laws are changed, anything deemed an offense by the new laws cannot be punished if it was committed before. His belief system that anyone can be punished automatically or expelled and etc if deemed racially inferior goes fundamentally against the morality behind the constitutions of European states and the USA. For example, there is a dictator in both Communist China and in Klassen's ideal state. Yes, Communist China is all about destroying the populace, but I think you're not fundamentally understanding the different view of human rights and morality here. It's not just about the end result, even though that is very important. It is also about the fundamental view of what constitutes a crime. Is existing a crime if you're the wrong race, or are crimes based on your actual actions? It's a very important distinction which most normal people would quickly point out to you in an argument. Doesn't seem like it's discussed that much here, but it's of great importance and skipping it is basically skipping the entire premise of morality.
I read through his whole thing and he phrases it all in a way where the 'mud races' are scum and the enemy. Just what do you even think he believes? He directly says the 'mud races' should be diminished whenever possible. Please state a one or two paragraph summary of what you think he believes, or better, what you personally believe. Let's just go through the list.
If it's a strawman, then what is the right view that you think is correct? If debate shuts down the moment I ask about specific issues there's no way to get to the heart of things and all the detailed answers. That just shuts down conversation and prevents the full truth from being revealed. For the sake of simplicity I'm going to ask the same list of questions from you and Aquarius as I am looking for a clear answer here. Either on your own personal moral views of what's right and wrong, what you think Ben Klassen's were, or both.HP Mageson666 said:I am not arguing your strawman.
On race-mixing, do you think there should be laws banning or limiting it again?
On forced sterilization, do you believe it is morally wrong or can it be fine as long as it improves Whites? And if forced sterilization is ok, how far can this go?
On immigration, do you think the migrants in Europe should be forcibly expelled in some way? Or should the immigration into the countries be the only thing stopped? Disincentivizing welfare leeching is also an option in combination with incentivizing white birth rates and the return of migrants to their home countries. But I want to know which of these things you believe in.
On genocide, do you think this is morally bad? I would agree that it is. But in that case, we need to get to analyzing the reason for it being bad. Is it bad because of utilitarian reasons(EX:Jews genociding whites is bad because the white race is superior/better and/or Whites genociding Jews would not be bad if it benefits Whites) or because of reasons of principle(Genocide in itself is fundamentally wrong regardless of whether it guarantees a good result or not)? Utilitarian morality is much more of a slippery slope for reasons I am sure you can understand.
What about segregation? Do you think de-segregation was a good or bad thing or what mix of both? And would re-segregation be a good thing to you in any way?
On eugenics, do you think there should be laws incentivizing people for doing marriages that are seen as eugenic by the government?
Anyway, that should be a good list, if you want to give the answers it would be a real help to clarifying your world view or Klassen's. When you simply call what I say a strawman because I made an analysis of what Ben Klassen's views seemed to be to me based on his book's central principles, it proves nothing and provides no meaningful knowledge to anyone.
His own book directly shows that I am not strawmanning, he directly says that "Whatever is good for the White Race is the highest virtue, and whatever's bad for the White Race is the highest Sin'. That's a direct statement that all that matters to him is the end result of Whites winning and that the means justify the ends. Morally speaking, the only thing that makes this different from any other totalitarian ideology is that Ben Klassen may not think that totalitarianism is the most effective way for Whites to survive. But that doesn't change his set of principles. Again, if you think that all that matters is the end result of Whites succeeding, the only reason not to do things like forced sterilization or anything else is because it is not effective, not because it is morally wrong, as a utilitarian morality forbids the notion of anything being morally wrong. That's of incredible importance here.
Now it could be argued that because he was an Atheist, he couldn't believe in moral right or wrong and found it logically incoherent, but didn't directly want to be a dictator or to make genocide happen or forced sterilization or etc. That's probably true, but it doesn't change that there's a severe fundamental problem in a purely utilitarian view which has no objective moral principles. It's very subject to slippery slopes and value drift. It basically is a fast track to nihilism and the worldview that reality is completely amoral and all that matters is power, the Might makes Right philosophy. Hopefully you or Aquarius see the problem with that.
Aquarius said:Let me guess, all of this offends you and you probabily aren’t white right?ConsistentMeditator said:Aquarius said:All you’re doing is comparing a communist jewish system with a White socialism that is meant to save and preserve our race. From what you’re saying it seems you don’t really understand much about NS. In Ben Klassen’s system nobody is gonna kill non whites unless there is a violent opposition towards Whites themselves. It’s not like you get killed based on your race.
I read through his whole thing and he phrases it all in a way where the 'mud races' are scum and the enemy. Just what do you even think he believes? He directly says the 'mud races' should be diminished whenever possible. Please state a one or two paragraph summary of what you think he believes, or better, what you personally believe. Let's just go through the list.
If it's a strawman, then what is the right view that you think is correct? If debate shuts down the moment I ask about specific issues there's no way to get to the heart of things and all the detailed answers. That just shuts down conversation and prevents the full truth from being revealed. For the sake of simplicity I'm going to ask the same list of questions from you and Aquarius as I am looking for a clear answer here. Either on your own personal moral views of what's right and wrong, what you think Ben Klassen's were, or both.HP Mageson666 said:I am not arguing your strawman.
On race-mixing, do you think there should be laws banning or limiting it again?
On forced sterilization, do you believe it is morally wrong or can it be fine as long as it improves Whites? And if forced sterilization is ok, how far can this go?
On immigration, do you think the migrants in Europe should be forcibly expelled in some way? Or should the immigration into the countries be the only thing stopped? Disincentivizing welfare leeching is also an option in combination with incentivizing white birth rates and the return of migrants to their home countries. But I want to know which of these things you believe in.
On genocide, do you think this is morally bad? I would agree that it is. But in that case, we need to get to analyzing the reason for it being bad. Is it bad because of utilitarian reasons(EX:Jews genociding whites is bad because the white race is superior/better and/or Whites genociding Jews would not be bad if it benefits Whites) or because of reasons of principle(Genocide in itself is fundamentally wrong regardless of whether it guarantees a good result or not)? Utilitarian morality is much more of a slippery slope for reasons I am sure you can understand.
What about segregation? Do you think de-segregation was a good or bad thing or what mix of both? And would re-segregation be a good thing to you in any way?
On eugenics, do you think there should be laws incentivizing people for doing marriages that are seen as eugenic by the government?
Anyway, that should be a good list, if you want to give the answers it would be a real help to clarifying your world view or Klassen's. When you simply call what I say a strawman because I made an analysis of what Ben Klassen's views seemed to be to me based on his book's central principles, it proves nothing and provides no meaningful knowledge to anyone.
His own book directly shows that I am not strawmanning, he directly says that "Whatever is good for the White Race is the highest virtue, and whatever's bad for the White Race is the highest Sin'. That's a direct statement that all that matters to him is the end result of Whites winning and that the means justify the ends. Morally speaking, the only thing that makes this different from any other totalitarian ideology is that Ben Klassen may not think that totalitarianism is the most effective way for Whites to survive. But that doesn't change his set of principles. Again, if you think that all that matters is the end result of Whites succeeding, the only reason not to do things like forced sterilization or anything else is because it is not effective, not because it is morally wrong, as a utilitarian morality forbids the notion of anything being morally wrong. That's of incredible importance here.
Now it could be argued that because he was an Atheist, he couldn't believe in moral right or wrong and found it logically incoherent, but didn't directly want to be a dictator or to make genocide happen or forced sterilization or etc. That's probably true, but it doesn't change that there's a severe fundamental problem in a purely utilitarian view which has no objective moral principles. It's very subject to slippery slopes and value drift. It basically is a fast track to nihilism and the worldview that reality is completely amoral and all that matters is power, the Might makes Right philosophy. Hopefully you or Aquarius see the problem with that.
All you’re doing is preaching your own mental weaknesess and insecurities. It seems like you are against the White race to survive. I don’t think you realize this is White countries we’re talking about. OUR countries. What is the best for our people has to be done. One of your questions is literally is if eugenics has to be incentivised, like wtf, does that scare you lol? That’s what had been done in National Socialist Germany.
In all your time here, you always sound like some liberal extremist "journalist." All you do is make these weird strawman statements posed as questions, but they are not actual questions. You are always trying to lure people into saying things which you would then use to try to make us all look bad. But what really bothers you is we are not making the statements that your bullshit strawmans are designed to try to get us to say. The only reply you get is to say stop being a dumbass because we aren't going to give any validation to your strawmans. This is exactly what you are usually doing, and you've been doing this since the moment you made your account.ConsistentMeditator said:........
Ol argedco luciftias said:In all your time here, you always sound like some liberal extremist "journalist." All you do is make these weird strawman statements posed as questions, but they are not actual questions. You are always trying to lure people into saying things which you would then use to try to make us all look bad. But what really bothers you is we are not making the statements that your bullshit strawmans are designed to try to get us to say. The only reply you get is to say stop being a dumbass because we aren't going to give any validation to your strawmans. This is exactly what you are usually doing, and you've been doing this since the moment you made your account.ConsistentMeditator said:........
If you had any actual genuine questions, they wouldn't always be so rediculously strawman and bullshit. But every single time, you make it so obvious that your entire intention is just to lure us into saying some strange thing that sounds bad, so then you can just turn it right around and show your boss "Look what they just said! Look what I got them to say!" Your questions are always just like "So you all are saying [something that could sound bad if taken out of context]? Now as your answer, repeat back to me that thing that could sound pretty bad. So that I can use that as some kind of proof in my journalism that you Satanists are bad people."
But we recognize that these "questions" from you are always just these exact same kinds of strawmans and lures. We recognize that you are not being genuine and honest, and your motives are not as good as you say they are.
[/quote]Ol argedco lucifitias said:The thing avout having a big group of people with strong healthy souls, is we have sensitivities that most people don't have. We can feel people's energies and intentions, we can see exactly what they are doing, we see how they are trying to trick us. Then we just laugh at them for being dumb and thinking that they could actually trick us.
Harry said:ShadowTheRaven said:except it applies to whites not arabs.
I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
And the Jews had succeed in convening that all the races in the middle east that everyone is an Arab so that everyone can mix races without thinking twice. like now in the middle east people don't say that he is white. she is an Asian and they are Hispanic but they say that we all are Arab so people believe that they are one and mix without hesitation. i hope that you got me now.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
And EGYPT is NOT an arab country but a WHITE!!! country With a "W" because it's WHITE majority.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Fuck the Jews I'm now going to charge an RTR with all this anger towards the Jews. :x
do you think that this guy is an Arab?
ConsistentMeditator said:Ol argedco luciftias said:In all your time here, you always sound like some liberal extremist "journalist." All you do is make these weird strawman statements posed as questions, but they are not actual questions. You are always trying to lure people into saying things which you would then use to try to make us all look bad. But what really bothers you is we are not making the statements that your bullshit strawmans are designed to try to get us to say. The only reply you get is to say stop being a dumbass because we aren't going to give any validation to your strawmans. This is exactly what you are usually doing, and you've been doing this since the moment you made your account.ConsistentMeditator said:........
If you had any actual genuine questions, they wouldn't always be so rediculously strawman and bullshit. But every single time, you make it so obvious that your entire intention is just to lure us into saying some strange thing that sounds bad, so then you can just turn it right around and show your boss "Look what they just said! Look what I got them to say!" Your questions are always just like "So you all are saying [something that could sound bad if taken out of context]? Now as your answer, repeat back to me that thing that could sound pretty bad. So that I can use that as some kind of proof in my journalism that you Satanists are bad people."
But we recognize that these "questions" from you are always just these exact same kinds of strawmans and lures. We recognize that you are not being genuine and honest, and your motives are not as good as you say they are.
It isn't a 'lure', though. You keep seeing it that way but it's not, I am trying to figure out people's positions on specific issues which don't get explained in detail by the admins, they don't cover these things. I already pointed out the specific list of issues I wanted answered since I think they're pretty important. On what you think of laws banning immigration, laws expelling migrants back to homelands, laws relating to forced sterilization, etc. Do you think the Nazis did forced sterilization on those deemed genetically unfit? As that's what the official narrative of the mainstream media says. I don't even know what the official view here is on that, on what is a hoax and what is not. I know everyone here believes the Holocaust is a hoax, and I think there's some evidence for that, like the wooden doors that couldn't stop gas, there only being 4 actual crematoriums which couldn't do it anywhere near fast enough, etc. But the Holocaust isn't everything the Nazis are claimed to have done, not by a longshot.
Here's a link explaining the forced sterilization done on the disabled in Nazi Germany:
http://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/tree/535eed207095aa0000000243
Is that all a hoax too? I actually believe the Holocaust might have been a hoax like everyone says here, but never have I seen it actually argued by alt right people or whoever else that all the forced sterilization was a hoax too. Or if part of that was a hoax, how much was a hoax and what parts weren't a hoax? I believe that those claims might all be a hoax too, but I've never seen a clear systematic review by the alt right of all the claims against the Nazis which dismantles all of them on one site with clear organization. Not here or anywhere else. I don't even know what the mainstream view here is on whether they happened or not. I do know, at the very least, that Mageson said sterilizing the severely retarded is common sense when talking about those so badly damaged that they could kill the people forced to take care of them on accident, so I doubt somewhat that everyone here rejects forced sterilization on the principle of bodily autonomy alone. That could already be a significant departure from standard western autonomy based ethics, but I will preserve the benefit of the doubt and not simply assume this is the belief of everyone or even a majority here.
Ol argedco lucifitias said:The thing avout having a big group of people with strong healthy souls, is we have sensitivities that most people don't have. We can feel people's energies and intentions, we can see exactly what they are doing, we see how they are trying to trick us. Then we just laugh at them for being dumb and thinking that they could actually trick us.
loki88 said:Harry said:ShadowTheRaven said:except it applies to whites not arabs.
I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
And the Jews had succeed in convening that all the races in the middle east that everyone is an Arab so that everyone can mix races without thinking twice. like now in the middle east people don't say that he is white. she is an Asian and they are Hispanic but they say that we all are Arab so people believe that they are one and mix without hesitation. i hope that you got me now.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
And EGYPT is NOT an arab country but a WHITE!!! country With a "W" because it's WHITE majority.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Fuck the Jews I'm now going to charge an RTR with all this anger towards the Jews. :x
do you think that this guy is an Arab?
Are there currently Whites in Egypt who are 'indigenous'? I doubt it. The negro cushites murdered them all so far as I've heard
Stormblood said:loki88 said:Harry said:I'm not an Arab OMG. :roll: The Arab race is the mix between the white and the black race which creates the Arab race. and I'm not mixed and my nose is not big or hocked and i don't have any Semitic traits.
And the Jews had succeed in convening that all the races in the middle east that everyone is an Arab so that everyone can mix races without thinking twice. like now in the middle east people don't say that he is white. she is an Asian and they are Hispanic but they say that we all are Arab so people believe that they are one and mix without hesitation. i hope that you got me now.
Their is a difference between being born in a region and being part of a race.
it's a huge confusion world wide which always pisses me off when i think about it but i hope that it will end ASAP.
i also get offended when people call me an Arab.
I'm part of the Greek sub-race.
And EGYPT is NOT an arab country but a WHITE!!! country With a "W" because it's WHITE majority.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Fuck the Jews I'm now going to charge an RTR with all this anger towards the Jews. :x
do you think that this guy is an Arab?
Are there currently Whites in Egypt who are 'indigenous'? I doubt it. The negro cushites murdered them all so far as I've heard
Have you been there? If you aren´t, you aren´t really qualified to say that there aren´t. The posted guy looks full White and even a little handsome.
"It is my desire that all my followers unite in a bond of unity, lest those who are without prevail against them." - Satan