Welcome to our New Forums!

Our forums have been upgraded and expanded!

Welcome to Our New Forums

  • Our forums have been upgraded! You can read about this HERE

On the angles of the chart: ASC, DC, MC and IC

Shadowcat

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2019
Messages
3,603
Location
Atop the ashes of Isreal
Concerning the four angles of the chart, The ascendant (ASC), descendant (DC), The Midheaven or Medium Coeli (MC), and the Imum Coeli (IC):

The ASC:
The ascendant is the cusp of the first house and represents our personality, physical condition, appearance, and our general temperament. The ruling planet of this sign is our chart ruler, the planet that represents who we are. The affairs of this planet, its sign, and the house it is in will be dominant in our lives unless there is a stellium in another sign, or unless there is a planet conjunct the ASC, or another planet in the 1st house, making this planet a co-ruler. The sign the chart ruler is in is more important, even than the sun and moon sign. (unless one or both of these ARE the ruler(s)).

The personality, body, and appearance are then blended with the natures of these planets, and the signs they are in. Planets that are in a major aspect other than the conjunction to the ascendant also have this influence but to a bit of a lesser extent. The effects of this are similar but not quite the same, as another planet aspecting your ruler(s). Multiple co-rulers give a multifaceted personality with potentially many talents.

If someone's Saturn aspects your ascendant, this may have a similar effect as their Saturn being in aspect to your chart ruler.


Saturn conjunct this angle in a natal chart or in the first house can give extremes of low self-esteem, problems with health, self-depreciation, and shyness as well as morbid thoughts and a tendency to the dark side of things. Pluto can also have this effect, with an inner intensity, and if the ascendant is in Scorpio to a bad degree, might even experience feelings of general alienation or isolation. The ascendant on a bad degree or unfortunate fixed star can produce prominent issues throughout life, especially if also in conjunction with another planet.

The DC:
The descendant is the cusp of the 7th house and represents not only our business relations, partnerships, and platonic relations/acquaintances, but it also represents what we attract and what we are attracted to in any of these dynamics. If there are any planets conjunct this angle or in the 7th house, who and what we are attracted to, and what we attract in these relationship dynamics will be according to the nature of these planets, as well as the degree the DC is on and fixed stars if any.

If someone's Saturn aspects your descendant, they may cause problems in your social circles or hinder you somehow from attracting a prospective partner. They may even be competition.


If anyone has Saturn Mars or Neptune conjunct this angle or in the 7th house, they are likely to attract Romantic partners, coworkers, and others who may be unreliable, a bad influence, cheap, or downright abusive. If they are unlucky enough to have 25 degrees of Taurus on the descendant conjunct the violent star Algol, any other violent degree of Taurus, or 15 or 25 degrees of Leo, violence can come from the people that comes into this person's life and prove to be injurious to them or their loved ones, especially with any of the 3 planets mentioned close to the DC or in the 7th house. If the Descendant is trine any planets in the 10th house, especially mars, this could happen at work or in public, as far as the first encounter is concerned, or the act of aggression could occur right then and there.
Uranus could attract you to unique and eccentric people and situations and so on.

The MC and IC:

This is called the parental axis because the midheaven is the cusp of the 10th house, representing the father while the IC is the cusp of the 4th house representing the mother. It can be common to have your MC as your father's sun sign and your IC as your mother's sun sign, or at least in the same elements.

If someone's Saturn aspects your MC as a colleague of yours, they may prove to be a hindrance to your work ethic somehow or be the cause of a greater workload, or even deliberately sabotage your work out of jealousy or resentment for whatever reason. They may see you as an obstacle to them and may strongly dislike the way you work. If this is a boss of yours, your job will probably not be pleasant for as long as you work there. If other synastry aspects offset any of this, this may not be present at all, but might come forth some of the time, more often than with other people at work, but more strictly in the work zone than on an actual personal level. If this negative aspect manifests outside of work, then it may be in public somewhere, or something happening with someone later in life ending up being a problem for your father, or an annoyance much like their Saturn aspecting your sun.


The MC, the cusp of the 10th house represents our outer public persona, who we are molded and shaped to be as adults, and how we are perceived by others. The MC is also representative of our career choices and preferences and how we perform at work and in the public eye, and even how we want to be seen. The sign that is here can signal how this all is, as well as the type of career one, might be drawn to. The sign's ruling planet of the MC can indicate professions specifically that may be of interest, as far as the affairs of the planet, and professions ruled by this planet. Saturn aspecting this angle makes for a very hard and enduring worker and even someone that can be overworked or mistreated in the workplace. If Neptune aspects the MC or is conjunct one may be often undermined in their sphere of work or end up with bosses and colleagues who prove to be unreliable or a detriment. One may also have a hindered or weakened work ethic with Neptune.

If there are any planets conjunct the MC Their natures can blend in with the sign of the MC and the public expression, as well as career choices. Any planets in the 10th house will also influence this. In some cases, the influences of these planets may crowd out the influence of the MC sign as far as career choice and attraction. The nature of any planets conjunct with the midheaven will also give insight into the nature and predispositions of one's colleagues and overall work environment. If the MC is in aspect to the DC, the nature of the two signs may be blended in, as whichever planets are conjunct these angles, as the work sphere and people also bleed into the affairs of the 7th house. If one's chart ruler is Jupiter, or one that is in the sign of Sagittarius, and aspecting the MC, the person could end up traveling a lot for work. If the ruler, in this case, is the moon, this could also include constantly changing living space for work, or even working in a foreign country.

If the MC is on a bad degree or fixed star, or if any planet conjunct this angle is afflicted or debilitated, there may be issues involving public expression, and self-image regarding work. especially with the sun in the 10th house, and if it is debilitated by Saturn. The self-image and sense of self-worth may be very tied to one's work performance and feedback at work with a 10th house sun. Any 1st house planets aspecting the midheaven can amplify self-identity with one's job, as can the MC aspecting the chart ruler, especially with the opposite and conjunction. Mars in the 10th house, or aspecting the MC can bring confrontations at work, whereas Saturn can manifest restrictions and setbacks.

The IC is our subconscious and our upbringing in the home as children. It is our unadulterated selves before growing up and going out into the world, and our inner private lives. It represents who we feel we really are inside, a persona we may feel too uncomfortable to show to the world. It may be a part of us that was buried by trauma at a young age. If the sun or the moon is conjunct this angle or aspect it somehow, the mother and /or the father will have had a significant influence on a certain part of your outlook on life and your upbringing, if other factors in the chart support, this can also show a very close relationship with one or both of your parents. The qualities of these and other planets that may be in this position will influence your innate inner world.

If someone Saturn aspects your IC, they may have been a hindrance or harm to your mother, or your childhood household in some way or negatively directly involved in your upbringing. This could have been an abusive family member or someone who proved to be dis trustworthy. This placement is very similar to Saturn aspecting your moon.


This place in the chart can also give clues as to unconscious trauma and hang-ups that have occurred in childhood or other things that have been repressed causing problems in adult life. IF there are afflicted planets on this angle, or if it is on a bad degree, or fixed start then this is blatant. If this is a parental planet such as the sun or moon, it is another type of indicator of problems with one or both of the parents in childhood that left unsolved issues of neglect, trauma, unfulfilled desires for adoration, attention or recognition, etc.

If your char ruler aspects this angle you might be more conscious of these issues than if this was not the case, or you might even have more trouble letting them go, carrying them throughout your life, especially if these are deep-seated. If mercury is afflicted or on a bad degree, and or combined with any of the above, especially if Saturn is in the 3rd or 11th house, there may have been significant problems with a sibling as a child, involving intense ridicule, favoritism from one or both of the parents, and general abuse.

If Mars or Saturn aspect this angle or are in the 4th house, It indicates significant restrictive problems in the childhood home as well as possible domestic violence, particularly against the mother. Neptune can indicate a weak mother or an unreliable unstable home environment.

As mentioned, removing negative karma related to any of your planets that are close to these angles or aspect them can help relieve the negativity that manifests in their affairs, as well as working with runes and even later planetary squares to manifest what you need. For deep-seated issues, a working of 90 days of freeing the soul, or even more might be best for things like trauma or subconscious hang-ups.

Venus energy is great for social relations, as well as the ehwaz rune, for forming friendships and good vibes in the workplace (just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends.)
 
If the MC is in aspect to the DC, the nature of the two signs may be blended in, as whichever planets are conjunct these angles, as the work sphere and people also bleed into the affairs of the 7th house
.

Sorry correction.

If a planet in the 7th house aspects the MC. Not the two angles together.
 
88HungarianSatanicWarrior666 said:
Shadowcat said:
(just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends.)
LoL,why not be friends at work? :?
I do not understand this,could you please explain?

I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus. Unless these people knew you beforehand or grew up with you, then this could be a different story. The worst thing you can do in any case is DATE someone from work.
 
You should write all of this with posts on planets in Astro forum as one thread thats pinned there instead of making separate thread for every planet that gets lost down the road.
 
Shadowcat said:
88HungarianSatanicWarrior666 said:
Shadowcat said:
(just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends.)
LoL,why not be friends at work? :?
I do not understand this,could you please explain?

I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus. Unless these people knew you beforehand or grew up with you, then this could be a different story. The worst thing you can do in any case is DATE someone from work.
No, this is not most people. You are describing certain corporate culture that does not apply to small businesses and the like.

I wonder what is your reasoning for being against dating someone from work environment.
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
88HungarianSatanicWarrior666 said:
LoL,why not be friends at work? :?
I do not understand this,could you please explain?

I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus. Unless these people knew you beforehand or grew up with you, then this could be a different story. The worst thing you can do in any case is DATE someone from work.
No, this is not most people. You are describing certain corporate culture that does not apply to small businesses and the like.

I wonder what is your reasoning for being against dating someone from work environment.

I have worked in 3 different countries USA NL and Canada. and have lived in two, US and NL. Weather in small businesses or big ones I have seen people talk down to and about one another while being friendly on the surface out of jealously or just plain being negative, or going behind someone's back to the boss to badmouth them. In male dominated fields especially, women observe what the men are really like when they don't want something from them.

This part is maybe exclusive to the construction industry, but alot of women put up with alot of shit. Men have turned a 180 after playing a part to me to try to "get a cookie" and when they didn't get it became abrasive and abusive. I have had several fired.

At best, if two people date in the workplace and break up alot of problems can ensue that can ruin the work environment that affects performance. Believe it or not you will not be accommodated by being split up if your work wants you to work with them on a project for example, and alot of people are not mature enough to handle that which disturbs production and work ethic. To be fair I have seen maybe two exceptions of a husband and wife working together ..I wonder how long that will last.

The ex partner might even go to an extent to sabotage ones reputation with the company out of malice or spite. At the very least it can cause alot of unnecessary drama that does not belong at work. Trust me. Do yourself a favor and don't get off where you make your bread :lol:
 
Shadowcat said:
88HungarianSatanicWarrior666 said:
Shadowcat said:
(just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends.)
LoL,why not be friends at work? :?
I do not understand this,could you please explain?

I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus.
This is true in many places.But not just at work.
Where I live, people are so jealous of each other that they report each other to the police.Because if the other person makes a little bit more money, for example:Also heard of a person in he municipality who reported another person to the police for forgery of documents, when it wasn't true (or supposedly wasn't true), all out of envy to make the person feel bad.I don't know what happened and I don't even know if this story is true (I am not particularly interested in this faggot story), but they are idiots(malicious bastards) exist.
 
BlackJackal said:
You should write all of this with posts on planets in Astro forum as one thread thats pinned there instead of making separate thread for every planet that gets lost down the road.
I am very glad that she posted this here.

I usually just read the Important Articles from JoS Ministry articles in general, but sometimes I watch Joy Of Satan 666.I don't watch it because I'm lazy to read, but because I regret the time it takes away from FTRRs.
I honestly didn't want to read this either, but I felt it was necessary.
And if she post it here, maybe more people will read it.
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus. Unless these people knew you beforehand or grew up with you, then this could be a different story. The worst thing you can do in any case is DATE someone from work.
No, this is not most people. You are describing certain corporate culture that does not apply to small businesses and the like.
You are both almost equally right. :D :lol:
 
Shadowcat said:
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
I suppose this could depend on the work sphere, but most people at work are in competition or at worst trying to throw one another under the bus. Unless these people knew you beforehand or grew up with you, then this could be a different story. The worst thing you can do in any case is DATE someone from work.
No, this is not most people. You are describing certain corporate culture that does not apply to small businesses and the like.

I wonder what is your reasoning for being against dating someone from work environment.

I have worked in 3 different countries USA NL and Canada. and have lived in two, US and NL. Weather in small businesses or big ones I have seen people talk down to and about one another while being friendly on the surface out of jealously or just plain being negative, or going behind someone's back to the boss to badmouth them. In male dominated fields especially, women observe what the men are really like when they don't want something from them.

This part is maybe exclusive to the construction industry, but alot of women put up with alot of shit. Men have turned a 180 after playing a part to me to try to "get a cookie" and when they didn't get it became abrasive and abusive. I have had several fired.

At best, if two people date in the workplace and break up alot of problems can ensue that can ruin the work environment that affects performance. Believe it or not you will not be accommodated by being split up if your work wants you to work with them on a project for example, and alot of people are not mature enough to handle that which disturbs production and work ethic. To be fair I have seen maybe two exceptions of a husband and wife working together ..I wonder how long that will last.

The ex partner might even go to an extent to sabotage ones reputation with the company out of malice or spite. At the very least it can cause alot of unnecessary drama that does not belong at work. Trust me. Do yourself a favor and don't get off where you make your bread :lol:
Your answer is simply great.I didn't expect this astrology article to talk so much about career, but I'm glad it did.
And as for the relationship, it can be really bad when people break up and continue to work together, you really couldn't have written it better.And many more I learned some useful information.Thank you.

Anyway, it was good to read through this whole astrology article as well,I have been retired from astrology for a long time,it was a bit nostalgic for me.And I thought I had almost mastered astrology,but with this post I have learned useful information again.

And as for you, I hope you don't have to put up with a lot of shit and no one takes advantage of you,my sweet sister.
 
BlackJackal said:
You should write all of this with posts on planets in Astro forum as one thread thats pinned there instead of making separate thread for every planet that gets lost down the road.

Don't worry, these are being made into one PDF that is going in the library.
 
Saturn square Ascendant is absolutely horrible. I had this happen with me. The person did not like the way I came across at all. They would criticize me about not having something that I didn't think I needed. Then I went to buy it to get them to shut up they said. You paid too much for it what are you dumb. I ended up stopping talking to this person.
 
Shadowcat said:
It's just when I see someone making an absolute statement on such topic I think, hmm, really?

So in conclusion you could have said in my expierence this is the case, and I don't recommend because...
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
It's just when I see someone making an absolute statement on such topic I think, hmm, really?

So in conclusion you could have said in my expierence this is the case, and I don't recommend because...

I am also not saying that there aren't exceptions. If you experience this then that's great you are lucky. But because this i know this to be a minority, the things I have said are meant to save everyone alot of head and heart ache. As a result yes, I consider this a near absolute and communicated it as such, as I don't want anyone getting hurt when they don't have to.
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
It's just when I see someone making an absolute statement on such topic I think, hmm, really?

So in conclusion you could have said in my expierence this is the case, and I don't recommend because...

+1

Shadowcat, you have to be careful how you write. I know quite a few people who have found love in the workplace and are doing well, having also children. Then being SS we know how to choose a partner and if there are problems we certainly don't act like npc's.
I'm afraid your "advice" stems from something imbalance or negativity, either induced or self-induced, do not bring unnecessary obstacles, it is counterproductive.
Ciao
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
It's just when I see someone making an absolute statement on such topic I think, hmm, really?

So in conclusion you could have said in my expierence this is the case, and I don't recommend because...
People are immature so I see why he said that but not everyone is like this (luckily). Only when Satanism will become more practiced in the world we will have more mature people.
 
Cfecit said:
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
It's just when I see someone making an absolute statement on such topic I think, hmm, really?

So in conclusion you could have said in my expierence this is the case, and I don't recommend because...

+1

Shadowcat, you have to be careful how you write. I know quite a few people who have found love in the workplace and are doing well, having also children. Then being SS we know how to choose a partner and if there are problems we certainly don't act like npc's.
I'm afraid your "advice" stems from something imbalance or negativity, either induced or self-induced, do not bring unnecessary obstacles, it is counterproductive.
Ciao

The problems would not come from any actual advanced SS on their side but mostly from the npc. This what I explained doesn't come from things you speculate. I bring no obstacles and have never meant anything I say to be counter productive. What I say is realistic and happens often and being SS will help you spot such people that would bring this to you, but guess what. Everyone at your work besides an SS will be an NPC...

I also know this does not count for every workplace. Who knows maybe in your country there are many places where this is less common. If what I say does not count for a particular person here then good. But my point still stands about how these things are still common and that they should be avoided and this has nothing to do with "personal negativity" or imbalances.

I may have listed what I personally experienced but it does not invalidate what I list as I have seen all sorts of things happen with many people.

I would say case by case basis. If it doesn't apply to you then great. But I can tell you right now I'm not the only one who would rather not fraternize at work...and you know what? It's especially because I am an SS and don't want someone bringing the things to me I have described at work.
luis said:
@Luis yes exactly also. Btw I am not a he :lol:
 
Shadowcat said:
The problems would not come from any actual advanced SS on their side but mostly from the npc. This w[...]

Well, rightly you said that you have to check on a case-by-case basis. That's all there is to it. You had a negative experience on this based on your limited background, that is, you are not a God who sees the whole picture of the situation. As in everything there are positives and negatives. This is exactly where Heru and I intervened, you should never write something as an absolute thing, but you should always use the conditional verb or "based on my experience" etc. This is because when you write something absolute, you influence the readers. It's like something you impose things on others. Worse, you might condition people who for a variety of reasons are not yet strong and independent intellentually into saying "lol that's just shadowcat bs" etc.

And I seem to understand that you want certain of your writings to end up in the library, I tell you clearly, these "absolute truth" things cannot be there for obvious reasons. You can't impose your background on others, that's all. And of your personal experiences I don't give a shit (said in a friendly way), because as said there are people who find something positive and there are other people who have a different feedback. It's a subjective thing, not an objective thing.

And hey, don't you realize that there are millions of family businesses in the world that the business is run by husband and wife!
 
Cfecit said:
Shadowcat said:
The problems would not come from any actual advanced SS on their side but mostly from the npc. This w[...]

Well, rightly you said that you have to check on a case-by-case basis. That's all there is to it. You had a negative experience on this based on your limited background, that is, you are not a God who sees the whole picture of the situation. As in everything there are positives and negatives. This is exactly where Heru and I intervened, you should never write something as an absolute thing, but you should always use the conditional verb or "based on my experience" etc. This is because when you write something absolute, you influence the readers. It's like something you impose things on others. Worse, you might condition people who for a variety of reasons are not yet strong and independent intellentually into saying "lol that's just shadowcat bs" etc.

And I seem to understand that you want certain of your writings to end up in the library, I tell you clearly, these "absolute truth" things cannot be there for obvious reasons. You can't impose your background on others, that's all. And of your personal experiences I don't give a shit (said in a friendly way), because as said there are people who find something positive and there are other people who have a different feedback. It's a subjective thing, not an objective thing.

And hey, don't you realize that there are millions of family businesses in the world that the business is run by husband and wife!

That's all there is to it. You had a negative experience on this based on your limited background,
I do not believe you caught the part when I said I have worked in 3 different countries and have lived in two, and have been to others as well. I am quite well traveled and have seen much with many different people in many work spheres. I do not know all and have never assumed such, but have seen a lot....

You are still assuming that I have been saying things based on my own experiences only which is false, which I said also in my last post, that I have seen many many times things happen with others, so it's not even about me. The people that I have seen also that I named, working together as husband and wife, often met before working together.

Despite many cases where this doesn't always have to be bad, I stand by personally believing it is better not to fraternize at work. Anyone can think for themselves in terms of their own situation in relation to this, and this just honestly nitpicking at my wording and blowing it up into a big deal.

Do not worry however, the tidbit about me mentioning relations at work is not necessary to be going in the library with the rest of the article, as it does objectively go off on a tangent a tad. I hardly believe however the drama that is attempted to be generated here, is useful, or that my wording with things in this case, would have such drastic effects from "Shadowcat's bs" as is implied.

I have always been attempting to be of help here to all SS and will continue to do so. "Shadowcats bs" FYI has even possibly recently saved a life, and has been of help to many here...Of which makes me quite happy, as it is in my innate nature to help others and always will be, no matter how many people are going to freak out just because they don't like the way I worded something.

I do hope the rest of the article was of help however, or the rest for that matter! If your amazing perception thinks its just part of Shadowca'ts bs too, just tell Dahaarkan and he doesn't have to put it in the library however...as this was already asked of me by him in the first place, to write all of these so they could be put in the library explicity...Fear not, all of Shadowca'ts bs is going to be filtered out!....whatever else may remain anyways, besides maybe minor grammatical errors.

Just be sure to stand next to the editor beforehand to make sure no fragile minded person is going to be warped by my absolute wording! LOL. Just tell Dahaarkan you want to help "edit". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
I don't see why you would take it so personally when the subjective reality of life expierences are pointed out. Traveled or not, it's still your subjective experience and that's that.

The reason for this thinking being that less expierenced people in life would be easily influenced to thinking certain statements are true when in reality things are more complicated. I think you should take the reader into account more, instead of thinking this is meant as a jab against you.

Cheers
 
Shadowcat said:

It's funny to read how some people are hurt over a non-issue such as #NotAll. Shouldn't this frame of mind be the norm? Of course not everyone will experience something but the fact some people are upset that someone didn't specifically mention this is actually kind of funny to me.

@Shadowcat your articles are great and your experiences are true. Don't get self conscious at the few people who want to "control" you "politely" to write one way or another. Considering you're writing here on JoS and not somewhere else tells me that your audience isn't supposed to be a bunch of noobs and idiots and SHOULD have self-awareness enough to know #NotAll. Although I have been surprised more than once for a few things in my life.
 
Enigmatic_Rabbit said:

Your response denotes an intellectual deficiency. You and shadowcat seem to espouse the "I write the way I fucking want, I don't care how readers approach it" line. You are also in bad faith saying that the place here is only for "smart people", when in fact it is not, there are different kinds of people and you need to take that into account, especially when you want to "help."
In fact, it is not about control but the exact opposite.
People who only look at their own little garden and have never integrated/confronted with different kinds of people, especially how one's own linguistic approcah can affect the status of the reader, it's useless to explain the importance of communication, because you will never understand.

@shadowcat I tell you again, even if your experience corresponds to 99% of the real situation, there is that 1% or even 0.01% that invalidates ALL of your argument, end of discussion. But it's not just that, the readers who read that sentence of yours, may subjugate your message as subconscious and there in then there are consequences. Not all people here are strong. End of discussion. You said you are here to help etc., what if a new SS here takes your indication at word, when in fact based on his natal chart or whatever, he would have just found love at work, but he doesn't because he has this mental conditioning "Shadowcat said this is evil"....now you understand what is your responsibility? What the fuck....you have to learn to demarcate your space and not invade other people's, that's all.

You said later that your statement is based on your personal experience, that's perfectly fine, the important thing is to emphasize it.

Ciao to everyone and sorry for ot
 
I only quickly skimmed the argument here. There are lots of people who met through work, and went on to get married and continue working together. Lots of married couples run businesses together after meeting through work. This can even be seen in their natal chart, certain placements make for meeting a partner through work.
 
Lydia [JG said:
" post_id=375040 time=1657983994 user_id=57]
I only quickly skimmed the argument here. There are lots of people who met through work, and went on to get married and continue working together. Lots of married couples run businesses together after meeting through work. This can even be seen in their natal chart, certain placements make for meeting a partner through work.

I prefer this type of correction and input as to people basically telling me there is something wrong with me as the reason I wrote something...which hilariously enough as nitpicky as people are being here about wording, are glazing over that it is exactly what they did, which annoyed me in the first place.

Thank you lydia. I have no qualms about this being edited and elaborated on before it goes into the library. I would appreciate your insight.
 
Cfecit said:
Your response denotes an intellectual deficiency. You and shadowcat seem to espouse the "I write the way I fucking want, I don't care how readers approach it" line. You are also in bad faith saying that the place here is only for "smart people", when in fact it is not, there are different kinds of people and you need to take that into account, especially when you want to "help."
In fact, it is not about control but the exact opposite.
People who only look at their own little garden and have never integrated/confronted with different kinds of people, especially how one's own linguistic approcah can affect the status of the reader, it's useless to explain the importance of communication, because you will never understand.

Translation: "Enigmatic_Rabbit is stupid. Shadowcat is stupid. Everyone who reads and believes what Shadowcat wrote is stupid. Cfecit is the only smart one here plus anyone who disagrees with Shadowcat, and also Enigmatic_Rabbit's stupidity is incurable."

This is literally what you just said. You called everyone here stupid and you have no faith in the SS community to differentiate other people's experience from their own. The amount of projection is staggering to say the least. I will leave it at that. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Shadowcat said:
Thank you lydia. I have no qualms about this being edited and elaborated on before it goes into the library. I would appreciate your insight.

Anyway, I'm going to put a light on the absolute shitshow that happened in here.

"It's not what they said, it's HOW they said it." <--- This is what everyone is getting their panties in a twist over. Yeah, kind of pathetic, isn't it? #NotAll, no matter how small the percentage is, YoU ShOuLd AlWaYs HaVe A DiScLaiMeR of #NotAll for, apparently, the "stupid people" here (I didn't say that, this is just what people believe when they cry about #NotAll. It's uncomfortable but it's true.). When someone screams out this, they are wanting to control the dialog because they cannot argue against your words. "It's HOW you said it". That's not an argument and that's not a valid point of criticism ESPECIALLY on an open Forum where people can amend and comment on what the OP said originally.

People should be encouraged to have self-agency. That means they must learn about not taking someone's word as gospel (which is what cultists do, ask any xian) or taking someone's word with a grain of salt. One leads to the path of sheep, the other to the path of self development. Saying that OP needs to amend their post to say #NotAll insinuates that most people here/coming here are braindead cultist sheep. Shadowcat, are you god or something cuz it seems like people are going to take your words as gospel.

So what happened here in Shadowcat's case, they explained their vast experience from multiple different countries (of which all have different social structures and cultures) and concluded on an uncomfortable truth. "You may not like it, but it's true." Now you have people coming out of the woodwork, with little experience of their own and only grand delusions of reality, crying that their bubble is now popped. "It's not what you said but how you said it". Experience trumps statistics.

What I saw playing out in here was "group mobbing" and "gaslighting" disguised as "innocent criticism to (((help))) the author". BullSHIT. I'm sorry, but I do Not take attacks like this lightly. How was Shadowcat attacked? Emotional manipulation and group mobbing to "shut them down". Ask anyone who can see, they will say the same thing.

With life experience comes wisdom and our OP has A LOT. Even if you are supposed to find your "true love" at work, because it's in your natal chart, it has nothing to do with disqualifying OP's statements that generally, dating in the workplace is not a good idea. This is reality. OP's article will not make someone (who is supposed to meet someone at work) NOT meet their "true love". Their article will not cause someone to miss out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. OP's article is coming out of real world heartache and life experience which will in NO WAY affect Your life unless you allow it. It is all on the reader's discretion and it is not OP's responsibility to hand-hold said reader. (Personally, I think people here on JoS should have the where-with-all to have discretion in the first place because in SS you are taught to take responsibility for yourself and if I'm wrong, then I'll be damned) OP, here, did nothing wrong.
 
Shadowcat said:
Lydia [JG said:
" post_id=375040 time=1657983994 user_id=57]
I only quickly skimmed the argument here. There are lots of people who met through work, and went on to get married and continue working together. Lots of married couples run businesses together after meeting through work. This can even be seen in their natal chart, certain placements make for meeting a partner through work.

I prefer this type of correction and input as to people basically telling me there is something wrong with me as the reason I wrote something...which hilariously enough as nitpicky as people are being here about wording, are glazing over that it is exactly what they did, which annoyed me in the first place.

Thank you lydia. I have no qualms about this being edited and elaborated on before it goes into the library. I would appreciate your insight.
Well, I did basically say the same thing as Lydia and I never implied something being wrong with you. I think you simply misunderstood and being the way you are, refused to adapt.
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
Lydia [JG said:
" post_id=375040 time=1657983994 user_id=57]
I only quickly skimmed the argument here. There are lots of people who met through work, and went on to get married and continue working together. Lots of married couples run businesses together after meeting through work. This can even be seen in their natal chart, certain placements make for meeting a partner through work.

I prefer this type of correction and input as to people basically telling me there is something wrong with me as the reason I wrote something...which hilariously enough as nitpicky as people are being here about wording, are glazing over that it is exactly what they did, which annoyed me in the first place.

Thank you lydia. I have no qualms about this being edited and elaborated on before it goes into the library. I would appreciate your insight.
Well, I did basically say the same thing as Lydia and I never implied something being wrong with you. I think you simply misunderstood and being the way you are, refused to adapt.

I am going to retype my reply to you in the other comment you made, but I deleted it figuring it would be moot. No Henu you didn't imply something was wrong with me or personally attack me. This was more directed at Cficit. It wasn't fair, however, for you to nitpick at my wording, and criticize me for how I could have said something different when you did not do the same thing to Cficit. That's what happens I guess though when two people gang up on somebody.

Here you said:
I don't see why you would take it so personally when the subjective reality of life experiences is pointed out. Traveled or not, it's still your subjective experience and that's that.

The reason for this thinking is that less experienced people in life would be easily influenced to think certain statements are true when in reality things are more complicated. I think you should take the reader into account more, instead of thinking this is meant as a jab against you.

Now its my turn to nitpick at the way someone words something. This is what he wrote at first, Before going on about "Shadowcat's BS"
I'm afraid your "advice" stems from something imbalance or negativity, either induced or self-induced,

This is a personal jab against me and not my writing. If it was presented to me in a non-personal way the way Lydia did especially with the astrology argument first off especially there would have been no issue with the way things came off. I don't mind being contradicted for the sake of accuracy but I want it done with respect. It is not much to ask. The way he approached me was rude and I didn't deserve it. It came off as trying to personally take me down a peg and calling me "deficient" Instead of saying "well this is inaccurate because of x and y", it was basically "you are writing this because you have a problem" or especially with the Shadowcat's bs part, "people will think you are full of shit"

Interesting how this was not criticized at all when the two of you emphasized the importance of wording so much. Guess that will only happen when convenient. Duly noted!
 
Shadowcat said:
Now its my turn to nitpick at the way someone words something. This is what he wrote at first, Before going on about "Shadowcat's BS"
I'm afraid your "advice" stems from something imbalance or negativity, either induced or self-induced,
Yes, I agree with you and I was thinking about the excact same line before. I am not going to comment on every post since I did not come here to comment on anything else but your work, but I did notice how untactful Cfeit's post was. I would have instead said something along the lines of subjective expierences, personal karma, your fate, instead of calling you being in deficit etc. Although Cfeit is not wrong per se as all of us do have our set of faults and deficits that we should work upon, and most serious people do, which is nice.

And no, I have not ganged up with anyone. I did not ask for anyone else to come around commenting on this matter. I just want this precious work to be as fine tuned as possible so I made a comment just as I want JoS in general to be as faultless as possible and I make posts in editorial check topic etc.
 
here we go..
@shadowcat, I'll answer you since you've brought me into question and explain why I used this language with you:
I have little patience with people like you who write absolute things when in fact they are wrong. Because you constitute harm to other people, and I don't like to see someone create that harm. You should say, "Thank you Cfecit, I didn't pay attention, next time I will formulate my words more appropriately."

And that's the end of it. I said in my first post that you have something negative, it's not a personal attack but it's a fact...Lydia also said it that there are millions of people who find love at work, so your statement against love at work comes from your negative experiences...it's a fact, how else should I say it? And I even gave you advice to help you with "don't bring unnecessary obstacles, it's counterproductive". You instead of thinking why I wrote these things, you interpreted it as an attack..what fault do I have? That's just your problem, and people who think like that are usually negative people.

Then you responded to me with:
- The problems would not come from any actual advanced SS
- This what I explained doesn't come from things you speculate.
- What I say is realistic and happens often
- I also know this does not count for every workplace
- But my point still stands about how these things are still common and that they should be avoided and this has nothing to do with "personal negativity" or imbalances.


And I responded to you with:
- Well, rightly you said that you have to check on a case-by-case basis. That's all there is to it.
- This is exactly where Heru and I intervened, you should never write something as an absolute thing
- This is because when you write something absolute, you influence the readers. It's like something you impose things on others. Worse, you might condition people who for a variety of reasons are not yet strong and independent intellentually into saying "lol that's just shadowcat bs" etc.


As you see, I have explained my reasons, why did you focus only on the term "bs"?

Then I added that this kind of language should never be in the library, for obvious reasons. (read the point 1 below)

Then you responded to me with useless repetitions already said, and only changed your attitude when Lydia intervened, to say the same things as Heru and I, just because she has the JG badge, maybe? Logic works regardless of badges or ranks ;)

There would be two things that don't add up for me, though:
1. No reply to my question: "You said you are here to help etc., what if a new SS here takes your indication at word, when in fact based on his natal chart or whatever, he would have just found love at work, but he doesn't because he has this mental conditioning "Shadowcat said this is evil"....now you understand what is your responsibility?"
2. this especially leaves me very confused about you: you literally made a description of how the natal chart and Saturn stuff works in relation to them (this exactly topic), this implies that you have a good knowledge in astrology, of a certain level, no? But then you say love at work is evil, while literally on the JoS you find that those who have Venus in the 6th house will find love through work. How could you not know? I have a meme for you below.... ;)
il_340x270.2806765495_h92e.jpg
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
Now its my turn to nitpick at the way someone words something. This is what he wrote at first, Before going on about "Shadowcat's BS"
I'm afraid your "advice" stems from something imbalance or negativity, either induced or self-induced,
Yes, I agree with you and I was thinking about the excact same line before. I am not going to comment on every post since I did not come here to comment on anything else but your work, but I did notice how untactful Cfeit's post was. I would have instead said something along the lines of subjective expierences, personal karma, your fate, instead of calling you being in deficit etc. Although Cfeit is not wrong per se as all of us do have our set of faults and deficits that we should work upon, and most serious people do, which is nice.

And no, I have not ganged up with anyone. I did not ask for anyone else to come around commenting on this matter. I just want this precious work to be as fine tuned as possible so I made a comment just as I want JoS in general to be as faultless as possible and I make posts in editorial check topic etc.

I am working on myself and have been, but am still far from perfect. Often with workings things will kick up or come to the surface, or I will realize something in retrospect. Alot of karma is kicking up for example for some time now with my mercury, and it has taught me several things and brought them to light. I also don't have a problem with personal faults being pointed out, but yes, tactfully.

I also want this work to be as accurate as possible. The main reason for me submitting everything in the forums was for positive critique and feedback as well as a lot of people benefitting from reading.
 
Cfecit said:
here we go..
@shadowcat, I'll answer you since you've brought me into question and explain why I used this language with you:
I have little patience with people like you who write absolute things when in fact they are wrong. Because you constitute harm to other people, and I don't like to see someone create that harm. You should say, "Thank you Cfecit, I didn't pay attention, next time I will formulate my words more appropriately."

And that's the end of it. I said in my first post that you have something negative, it's not a personal attack but it's a fact...Lydia also said it that there are millions of people who find love at work, so your statement against love at work comes from your negative experiences...it's a fact, how else should I say it? And I even gave you advice to help you with "don't bring unnecessary obstacles, it's counterproductive". You instead of thinking why I wrote these things, you interpreted it as an attack..what fault do I have? That's just your problem, and people who think like that are usually negative people.

Then you responded to me with:
- The problems would not come from any actual advanced SS
- This what I explained doesn't come from things you speculate.
- What I say is realistic and happens often
- I also know this does not count for every workplace
- But my point still stands about how these things are still common and that they should be avoided and this has nothing to do with "personal negativity" or imbalances.


And I responded to you with:
- Well, rightly you said that you have to check on a case-by-case basis. That's all there is to it.
- This is exactly where Heru and I intervened, you should never write something as an absolute thing
- This is because when you write something absolute, you influence the readers. It's like something you impose things on others. Worse, you might condition people who for a variety of reasons are not yet strong and independent intellentually into saying "lol that's just shadowcat bs" etc.


As you see, I have explained my reasons, why did you focus only on the term "bs"?

Then I added that this kind of language should never be in the library, for obvious reasons. (read the point 1 below)

Then you responded to me with useless repetitions already said, and only changed your attitude when Lydia intervened, to say the same things as Heru and I, just because she has the JG badge, maybe? Logic works regardless of badges or ranks ;)

There would be two things that don't add up for me, though:
1. No reply to my question: "You said you are here to help etc., what if a new SS here takes your indication at word, when in fact based on his natal chart or whatever, he would have just found love at work, but he doesn't because he has this mental conditioning "Shadowcat said this is evil"....now you understand what is your responsibility?"
2. this especially leaves me very confused about you: you literally made a description of how the natal chart and Saturn stuff works in relation to them (this exactly topic), this implies that you have a good knowledge in astrology, of a certain level, no? But then you say love at work is evil, while literally on the JoS you find that those who have Venus in the 6th house will find love through work. How could you not know? I have a meme for you below.... ;)
il_340x270.2806765495_h92e.jpg

I actually went and looked that up for you. so here everyone:
6th house
One's work can involve the arts in some way, such as theatre, painting, sculpting, drawing, cosmetology and/or music. Other possibilities with this placement include working in health, recreation and/or the fitness industries. The health is generally not robust, but can improve with age. There is a potential for problems involving the throat and neck, and eating too many rich foods and sweets can cause health problems for these people. Venus in the sixth house is common for being married to a co-worker, or meeting a lover/partner through work. Venus in the sixth makes for pleasant working conditions unless other factors in the chart contradict this.

Yes, this is something I missed and was an inaccuracy, I respect Lydia because besides Cobra she is one of the most skilled here in astrology.

Its great that you provide and recalled this, but the rest of your reply and how you wrote it here only proves my point about you actually only caring about putting me down instead of actually contributing constructive criticism for the sake of fine-tuning knowledge. Because if this was not the case, you would have linked that and mentioned it in your argument in your very first response to me instead of going after me personally and not my writing, saying "this is wrong and based on bias look what it says about venus here" for example instead. I would have been fine with that.

I am still learning myself about astrology, albeit have learned much to this point and am still learning. I have written these articles because I was asked to by a trusted member because one of these written in the past proved to be insightful and helpful. They were not expected to be perfect at the beginning, which is why they have also been posted here for feedback. If I miss something or write something inaccurate in any of the articles I have written I want to hear it, but I want the writing critiqued without me being put down because I don't deserve it, not in this manner, not from you or from anyone. I worked for days on all of these by the way, you are welcome you ungrateful tit and even was sleep deprived at one point. Maybe that contributed to some mistakes.

At least I'm grown up enough to admit a fault. I care more about advancement and accuracy of knowledge than I do about always being right. What about you? Because the objective astrological truth (that yes should have actually been included in the venus article for that matter) that you provide here remains the truth but is used in a way with your own reply to try to tell me essentially how stupid I am, especially in this reply. This is not wanting to help for the sake of advancement or knowledge but just for the sake of one's ego and wanting to take someone down.

Do us all a favor if you want to put so much energy into criticizing me, and scrutinize the rest of my articles. If you find any other objective astrological truths that I seem to contradict then post them. I will also be posting an article on the deacons soon.
 
Shadowcat said:
I am working on myself and have been, but am still far from perfect. Often with workings things will kick up or come to the surface, or I will realize something in retrospect. Alot of karma is kicking up for example for some time now with my mercury, and it has taught me several things and brought them to light. I also don't have a problem with personal faults being pointed out, but yes, tactfully.

I also want this work to be as accurate as possible. The main reason for me submitting everything in the forums was for positive critique and feedback as well as a lot of people benefitting from reading.
I applaud to you. It's a long road, eh. Lately I have been removing dead weight (related to dopamine detox) and being more productive in my life. Blitz relayed a working for disclipine when we talked about another subject over mail some time ago, but I already have disclipine.I simply got to use it, and so I just willed my change instead of doing a working.

Let's keep the flag flying, shall we. :D
 
Shadowcat said:

so finally you also agree that it was a giant bs? Just reread: "just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends." You even emphasized it, with that word in capital letters! And you mourn that you didn't get glove treatment? Lol...At this point I suggest you delete the topic and rewrite it, because you never know, that not everyone reads the reply, but only the first post...
I repeat that my first two posts I used only neutral tones, and you interpreted it as an attack only because you were sure of your fallacy opinion.

Currently before I didn't know about venus in the 6th house, I studied astrology a long time ago, just faded memories, simply here the point is not having to provide you with proof, because it's just common sense. I repeat for the x th time, you cannot use language that is constricting and carries absolute truth from your limited background. This is what it is. It's called common sense. We all have different backgrounds and look at how the High Priests or even JS write, they are very careful and very good at using communication that does not condition the reader but just give input. Learn from them, on how them write. There are also some excellent books on how to communicate.

Then someone said, implicitly or not, that your text would end up in the library, and no shit, because JoS and reputation goes into it. Imagine if none of us had intervened, and that sentence would be there in the library...you would precisely ruin the reputation of JoS and therefore all of us.

Sleep deprived and stuff? Wtf? My advice to you: get out of your comfort zone, of your rainbow office, get down among ordinary people, even down in the street, among gang people, because is it unthinkable, no way, that you publish the work and at the same time want a polite and docile audience? It doesn't exist in any case, in any environment... you have to learn to deal with different kinds of people and ready for any kind of criticism. You'll understand that you'll just have to look at the content and not the people in sé, that's another reason why you acted the way you did...

And maybe I could have written more meekly, but that changes my approach, which is, I would have treated you like a child in kindergarten, you know, when a child says that babies come from the stork, and they state it as an absolute truth and are offended if you contradict them...so an adult person does just smiles...And for this reason, no, I want to treat you as an equal ss here so you have to take into account even harsh criticism. You wrote a gigantic bs and so it's normal that someone will send you to fuck off, I could not say that all brown is chocolate... ;)

What about you? Because the objective astrological truth (that yes should have actually been included in the venus article for that matter) that you provide here remains the truth but is used in a way with your own reply to try to tell me essentially how stupid I am, especially in this reply. This is not wanting to help for the sake of advancement or knowledge but just for the sake of one's ego and wanting to take someone down.

Actually, again, if you read the my first two posts, I did not try to destroy you as a person. Stop writing this crap.
What about me? Simply when I see an error like you did, I am aware that I am in the right side. I'm sure after this discussion you have grown in experience, so you'll have to thank me no? Haha :)

And finally, to answer your last question, no, I am not up to your standards on astrology knowledge, so I leave it to the experts to do proofreading of what you wrote. ;)

Ciao!
 
Why all the snide comments? She made a statement you didn't agree with so your immediate reaction is to attack her for it? Has it ever occurred to you that maybe her individual experiences in the workplace has led her to believe that? Or that perhaps in her particular workplace this statement is true?

It's rather childish to start such innuendo over something so insignificant. Especially to suggest she rewrite the entire post just to adhere to it.

It's disappointing to see Satanists dogging other Satanists; infighting leads nowhere, it just causes more upset than it's worth.

If we are more than a forum, being civil must be a priority, not an afterthought. If we are a family, showing respect must be a necessity.
 
Henu the Great said:
Shadowcat said:
I am working on myself and have been, but am still far from perfect. Often with workings things will kick up or come to the surface, or I will realize something in retrospect. Alot of karma is kicking up for example for some time now with my mercury, and it has taught me several things and brought them to light. I also don't have a problem with personal faults being pointed out, but yes, tactfully.

I also want this work to be as accurate as possible. The main reason for me submitting everything in the forums was for positive critique and feedback as well as a lot of people benefitting from reading.
I applaud to you. It's a long road, eh. Lately I have been removing dead weight (related to dopamine detox) and being more productive in my life. Blitz relayed a working for disclipine when we talked about another subject over mail some time ago, but I already have disclipine.I simply got to use it, and so I just willed my change instead of doing a working.

Let's keep the flag flying, shall we. :D

I feel like I should do the same.
I noticed just the other week how exhausting being on the laptop is for long periods of time. And half of the time that time is just spend finding distractions anyway.
 
Cfecit said:
Shadowcat said:

so finally you also agree that it was a giant bs? Just reread: "just do yourself a favor and don't look for close relations or friends at work. Your co-workers are NEVER your friends." You even emphasized it, with that word in capital letters! And you mourn that you didn't get glove treatment? Lol...At this point I suggest you delete the topic and rewrite it, because you never know, that not everyone reads the reply, but only the first post...
I repeat that my first two posts I used only neutral tones, and you interpreted it as an attack only because you were sure of your fallacy opinion.

Currently before I didn't know about venus in the 6th house, I studied astrology a long time ago, just faded memories, simply here the point is not having to provide you with proof, because it's just common sense. I repeat for the x th time, you cannot use language that is constricting and carries absolute truth from your limited background. This is what it is. It's called common sense. We all have different backgrounds and look at how the High Priests or even JS write, they are very careful and very good at using communication that does not condition the reader but just give input. Learn from them, on how them write. There are also some excellent books on how to communicate.

Then someone said, implicitly or not, that your text would end up in the library, and no shit, because JoS and reputation goes into it. Imagine if none of us had intervened, and that sentence would be there in the library...you would precisely ruin the reputation of JoS and therefore all of us.

Sleep deprived and stuff? Wtf? My advice to you: get out of your comfort zone, of your rainbow office, get down among ordinary people, even down in the street, among gang people, because is it unthinkable, no way, that you publish the work and at the same time want a polite and docile audience? It doesn't exist in any case, in any environment... you have to learn to deal with different kinds of people and ready for any kind of criticism. You'll understand that you'll just have to look at the content and not the people in sé, that's another reason why you acted the way you did...

And maybe I could have written more meekly, but that changes my approach, which is, I would have treated you like a child in kindergarten, you know, when a child says that babies come from the stork, and they state it as an absolute truth and are offended if you contradict them...so an adult person does just smiles...And for this reason, no, I want to treat you as an equal ss here so you have to take into account even harsh criticism. You wrote a gigantic bs and so it's normal that someone will send you to fuck off, I could not say that all brown is chocolate... ;)

What about you? Because the objective astrological truth (that yes should have actually been included in the venus article for that matter) that you provide here remains the truth but is used in a way with your own reply to try to tell me essentially how stupid I am, especially in this reply. This is not wanting to help for the sake of advancement or knowledge but just for the sake of one's ego and wanting to take someone down.

Actually, again, if you read the my first two posts, I did not try to destroy you as a person. Stop writing this crap.
What about me? Simply when I see an error like you did, I am aware that I am in the right side. I'm sure after this discussion you have grown in experience, so you'll have to thank me no? Haha :)

And finally, to answer your last question, no, I am not up to your standards on astrology knowledge, so I leave it to the experts to do proofreading of what you wrote. ;)

Ciao!

Just to be clear, my comment is directly towards you, not Shadowcat.
 
Lunar Dance 666 said:
I feel like I should do the same.
I noticed just the other week how exhausting being on the laptop is for long periods of time. And half of the time that time is just spend finding distractions anyway.
Taking small breaks and generally having balanced sitting behind screen with sports and yoga has helped me alot. Allowing some amount of feel good moments, say watching videos of cats is of course acceptable, but spending hours on the same end is not very productive.
 

Al Jilwah: Chapter IV

"It is my desire that all my followers unite in a bond of unity, lest those who are without prevail against them." - Satan

Back
Top