About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

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Stormblood
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About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:22 pm

Are carbohydrates really essential to human health? I noticed many things studying the subject. I won't bother you with all of them and I'll just go on and list the most important ones:

• unlike proteins and fats, you don't see any kind of carbohydrate called "essential". We have twenty essential amino acids, which make up proteins, and essential fatty oils but we have no essential 'anything' related to carbohydrates.
• Sugars, which are a kind of carbohydrate, create a sense of pleasure and comfort in the organism due to the release of serotonin. This also prompts your body to feel sleepy.
• They are the most common product when it comes to comfort food. They seem to be pushed relentlessly especially in places like Italy where most people are indoctrinated to eat an excessive amount of them over the course of the day, especially in the form of pasta (most, in fact, eat pasta both at lunch and dinner, taxing the liver).
• They are usually the cheapest product to buy, which makes you think it is a subtle push to make you eat more to save on budget. For example, bread is totally inexpensive and pasta doesn't cost more than €1 per kilogram. It seems an elaborate push to make you stock up on that and we know excesses are not really good for human health. French fries are sometimes even added as a free extra when you buy sandwiches, despite being almost completely devoid of any nutritional values (they are deep-fried after all).


What's your opinion on them? Are they needed for human health or could one live with little amounts of them, say 15 grams per meal (at most)?
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DezFranky
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby DezFranky » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:11 am

I'm just a nobody here, but I thought maybe you might find this interesting.

A quick clippet
"Fruits are the ideal source of carbohydrates because they are the foods humans are physiologically and anatomically adapted to eating. (These adaptations will be discussed in greater depth in a later lesson.) Humans have a natural “sweet tooth” because that’s our inherent nature. We’re supposed to eat fruits, mostly sweet fruits. Incidentally, we can enjoy some nuts, seeds, vegetables and sprouts. But sugar-containing fruits should be the primary items in our diet."

The site explains carbs down to the enzyme level, give it a shot!
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/carbohydrates

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Stormblood
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:03 pm

DezFranky wrote:I'm just a nobody here, but I thought maybe you might find this interesting.

A quick clippet
"Fruits are the ideal source of carbohydrates because they are the foods humans are physiologically and anatomically adapted to eating. (These adaptations will be discussed in greater depth in a later lesson.) Humans have a natural “sweet tooth” because that’s our inherent nature. We’re supposed to eat fruits, mostly sweet fruits. Incidentally, we can enjoy some nuts, seeds, vegetables and sprouts. But sugar-containing fruits should be the primary items in our diet."

The site explains carbs down to the enzyme level, give it a shot!
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/carbohydrates

You're not a nobody. Everyone here has their own voice.

I love fruit too. I was just pondering a point. However, I believe what the website you quoted states is incorrect. Since we didn't actually evolve from hominids, which the website seems to imply without actually stating it, since our conception we lived our lives eating mostly cooked foods, not raw foods, as far as I know.
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Centralforce666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:43 am

I am not going to recommend a gram amount, as this will depend largely on a person's activity levels.

Glucose is quite simply the easiest form of energy for your body to process. Whilst 'essential' fats and amino acids are as such for structural reasons (for cell components and enzyme formation) carbohydrates are a source of easy catabolism fuel with very minimal waste.

Protein processing produces ammonia, a toxic by product that needs to be converted to urea to prevent major organ damage and then urea must be excreted by the Kidneys.

Fat takes energy to cleave into usable molecule and the left over glycerol of a triglyceride is then required to be turned into glucose before it can be metabolised.

Glucose yields energy in the form of Adenosine Triphosphate molecules by donating phosphate to adenosine di phosphate molecules. It also yields water and pyruvate which can either form lactic acid or acetyl CoA in the presence of oxygen to enter the citric acid cycle.

Brain cells require glucose to function.

Muscle cells require ATP to contract. In fact, almost all cellular activities require ATP in some way or another, even just to maintain their basic electrochemical gradient so that cells do not lyse or crenate (explode or shrivel due to improper osmotic balance).

It makes sense that if all bodily cells require energy in the form of ATP, and glucose yields quick and easy ATP with minimal waste products (glycogen amino acids can also yield glucose and fat provides ATP via the citric acid cycle but neither process is as efficient or clean as carbohydrate metabolism) then consuming carbohydrates to supply functional energy to the body makes sense, provided it is in accordance with a person's energy needs and not exceeding it.

Carbohydrates are cheap because they are very basic. Carbon + water = carbohydrate. We are carbon based life forms and we also require water to survive. So it makes sense that we consume large amounts of what we are made of. Sugar also gets stored as glycogen AND fat.. The body has mechanisms for storing excess carbohydrates for later, or for use in times of low energy availability.

As for carbohydrate consumption taxing the liver.. This is simply misinformation. Carbohydrates pass through the liver as do all ingested products (bar fat) directly after consumption but the liver only has a role to play in the storage of sugars as glycogen under influence of the hormone insulin or release of glycogen into the blood when blood sugar is low. Of any organ is taxed it is the pancreas however the taxation is offset as well chewed sugars can be partially digested by amylase in the saliva requiring less pancreatic amylase to be produced. Protease and lipase must always be involved in the breakdown of proteins and fats irrespective of the length of time chewed.

Carbohydrates are also easy on the digestion, with fibre from cellulose and the absence of aggravate amino acids (such as gluten). The only exception to this is lactose which is a sugar that many people lack the enzyme to digest, particularly Asian populations.

Complex carbohydrates such as starches can provide huge amounts of easily available energy for people who are sustaining large amounts of physical work.

For any sedentary person, excesses of any kind will be harmful. Excess protein consumption can cause urea buildup and kidney damage. Excess fat consumption can cause cardiovascular changes as new blood vessels form around fatty deposits and increase strain on the heart. Excess carbohydrates can cause insulin sensitivity and production problems leading to dysregulation of blood sugar levels (a required range of blood glucose outside of which death and coma can occur in the low range or blood vessel damage and subsequent organ damage in the high range).

As for how much you can live off, this depends mostly on your level of activity and subsequent energy needs, the climate in which you live and your metabolic rate.

At any rate, in the absence of adequate dietary glucose levels, the body has developed pathways to create glucose from protein and to even support the brain with toxic ketone bodies.. If a subsequent dietary protein deficiency occurs, prior to problems arising from urea buildup, the body will catabolism muscle fibres to obtain the glucogenic proteins it requires in order to survive...
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HP. Hoodedcobra666 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:36 am

Centralforce I wanted to tell you that everyone in the groups is thankful for your longterm contributions both in knowledge and in support to those in need.
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Centralforce666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 am

HoodedCobra666 wrote:Centralforce I wanted to tell you that everyone in the groups is thankful for your longterm contributions both in knowledge and in support to those in need.


Thank-you HP for your encouragement.
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Truth4ever
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Truth4ever » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 am

hello. while this topic is still fresh i thought i'd ask about the Atkins diet. i have a coworker who is on it and talked about it to another who is trying to lose weight. she had said how about this diet is about more protein and limited carbs. i was just wondering what opinions anyone has about this diet and if something else could be suggested.

Also i wanted to know where might be the best place to learn more about nutrition so i can understand what vitamins work best with each others and what ones block each other.

Have a great day.


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HP Mageson666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HP Mageson666 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:17 am

Fatkin's died sixty pounds overweight with heart disease.

Truth4ever wrote:hello. while this topic is still fresh i thought i'd ask about the Atkins diet. i have a coworker who is on it and talked about it to another who is trying to lose weight. she had said how about this diet is about more protein and limited carbs. i was just wondering what opinions anyone has about this diet and if something else could be suggested.

Also i wanted to know where might be the best place to learn more about nutrition so i can understand what vitamins work best with each others and what ones block each other.

Have a great day.


Hail Satan

HP Mageson666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HP Mageson666 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:21 am

Note the people who do the Keto AKA Fatkin's diet are the body building bro community. And most of them die in their forties or earlier. The drugs are part of it. But its the massive amounts of meat and animal products they eat. Pro Athletes are on all kinds of drugs but they live to be old people.

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Stormblood
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:08 pm

HP Mageson666 wrote:Note the people who do the Keto AKA Fatkin's diet are the body building bro community. And most of them die in their forties or earlier. The drugs are part of it. But its the massive amounts of meat and animal products they eat. Pro Athletes are on all kinds of drugs but they live to be old people.


Yet Johnson Akemi used to say that people living in colder places like the Arctic benefit from eating more fat than else. That proves the point that diet is not only racial but also depends on the environment you live. We can't expect someone in Finland to eat the same food proportions a person in Spain does.

Centralforce666 wrote:...

Thank you for your explanation.

Although, I have not said that carbohydrate consumption in general taxes the liver. I said that excessive carbohydrate consumption taxes the liver.

Stormblood wrote:• They are the most common product when it comes to comfort food. They seem to be pushed relentlessly especially in places like Italy where most people are indoctrinated to eat an excessive amount of them over the course of the day, especially in the form of pasta (most, in fact, eat pasta both at lunch and dinner, taxing the liver).


Point #1, #4, and part of #3 were answered. What about the other points? Can someone answer them?

From what I gathered until now from the reply given by CentralForce, carbohydrates are not really essential but they are preferable to the other two main sources of nutrition.
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T.A.O.L.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby T.A.O.L. » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Centralforce666 wrote:..
Glucose yields energy in the form of Adenosine Triphosphate molecules by donating phosphate to adenosine di phosphate molecules. It also yields water and pyruvate which can either form lactic acid or acetyl CoA in the presence of oxygen to enter the citric acid cycle.

Brain cells require glucose to function.

It makes sense that if all bodily cells require energy in the form of ATP, and glucose yields quick and easy ATP with minimal waste products (glycogen amino acids can also yield glucose and fat provides ATP via the citric acid cycle but neither process is as efficient or clean as carbohydrate metabolism) then consuming carbohydrates to supply functional energy to the body makes sense, provided it is in accordance with a person's energy needs and not exceeding it.
..
For any sedentary person, excesses of any kind will be harmful. Excess protein consumption can cause urea buildup and kidney damage. Excess fat consumption can cause cardiovascular changes as new blood vessels form around fatty deposits and increase strain on the heart. Excess carbohydrates can cause insulin sensitivity and production problems leading to dysregulation of blood sugar levels (a required range of blood glucose outside of which death and coma can occur in the low range or blood vessel damage and subsequent organ damage in the high range).



Yes I know I cut out some parts, but I have a thing or two to say here.

glucose = C6H12O6 .. so where is the phosphorus?

The other thing I wanted to say is.. that glucose needs oxygen to be broken down by the mythogondria. It is possible for a cell to break it down without oxygen, but this creates toxic waste products.

I remember reading a something on that it is the oxygen deprivation that causes a cancer cell to appear, as the toxic waste will harm the dna of the cell or perhaps its rna first, which makes the processes in such a cell go wack.
But it also said that when they were looking at the conditions of this, if a mythochondria was placed in a healthy cell, this cell would always turn into a cancerous cell. Whereas, trying to put in faulty dna, didn't change much. Changing the rna, didn't change much or turn it into a cancerous cell.

I know it may be a bit hard to say, but honestly, you need to eat everything in balance, on that I agree, and in appropiate amounts. Eating a whole cake on a day or only living on smoothies is not appropiate.

Despite sugar being easily broken down, there are still sugar crashes and sugar lows making people grumpy or hyper. Basicly throwing people out of whack.
And to be honest, I myself feel done with eating potatoes every single day.
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CrushKikes
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby CrushKikes » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 am

Dietary carbohydrates are unnecessary for the body. The only organ that *needs* glucose is the brain, at about 10-20g per day. In case someone would cut out all carbohydrates entirely, the body can and does convert protein through gluconeogenesis into the essential daily ration of glucose.
Ketosis is the natural pre-industrialization metabolic state of humans. The body can at best store around 400g glycogen in muscle tissue, which amounts to about 1600kcal. That is less calories than an average human needs to consume per day to maintain his weight. Leading most people to the usual 3 meals a day cycle.
On the other hand, fat storage is virtually unlimited (not that you should fill that :lol: ), provides more calories per gram and thus allows one to use the body's fat storage as a continuous source of calories. This is what happens to people who fast, be it for as little as 8 hours (sleep) or even for several days. Many spiritual practices rely on the ketogenic state, the lack of insulin secretion and steady blood sugar levels lead to a very calm and peaceful state of mind. Fasting furthermore also activates the Sirtuin system which can lead to increased longevity and better protection against cancer.

As mentioned by others in this thread before, the metabolic pathway of carbohydrates (the krebs cycle) creates quite a lot of unfavorable byproducts, such as superoxidase's and advanced glycation end-products. The ketogenic state lowers these a lot. Ultimately the biggest dietary problem we have these days though isn't carbohydrates, or fats, but processed foods. Processed foods often contain incredible amounts of oxidized (rancid) fats, sugar, trans-fats (unnatural fats), heterocyclic amines (HCA's), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH's) and acrylamide. Many of those being directly carcinogenic. Thus the #1 focus of everyone should be to cut out processed food and consume real, natural food whenever possible. Modern food processing not only robs our food of many nutrients, enzymes and beneficial bacteria but also creates dozens of harmful byproducts. I'd suggest everyone to take a look at the Weston A Price Foundation's recommendations.

But to get back on topic: Yes the human body can and does do just fine off of 0g carb intake.

HPS Shannon
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HPS Shannon » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:44 am

I agree in that sedentary people shouldn't consume a lot of carbohydrates.

I see people eat a lot of carbohydrates such as pasta and bread, while it all depends on the person and how active they are, I wouldn't recommend eating a lot of it as quality is important. If you are eating lots of bread that is empty and chemical laden, then its definitely not the best. The wheat of today is an engineered version of the ancient grains of the past which where more nutrient dense, flavorful and reported to be more digestible.

Einkorn and Spelt are among the best kinds of if one wants to eat a lot of carbohydrates for fuel when working out or being highly active. The brand 'Jovial' carries many products made from these.

Centralforce666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:53 am

My point here is that the body has quite a dedicated system to the metabolism of glucose and other carbohydrates.. And if the brain is not one of the most important organs to consider, then I am not sure why we are even having this discussion.

Carbohydrates do not contain phosphate but they contribute the energy required via glucose hydrolysis to 're-attach' phosphate to ADP molecules. The potential energy of ATP is then stored in these phosphate bonds.

Adenosine Phosphate bonds also form the backbone of DNA strands and are required when cells replicate, hence how an excess might contribute to cancer cell proliferation.

The argument that fats are superior to carbohydrates as a source of fuel because of the kerbs cycle's toxic byproducts is null because fat cells, when metabolised for energy enter two pathways. One is transformation of the glycerol molecule into glucose via gluconeogenesis and the other, the main part is the entry of the Acetyl Coa molecules cleaved from the fat molecule into the Krebs cycle... Neither are necessarily superior or not superior in this regard as they both have the same fate in fact fat is more dense and therefore contributes more to the Krebs cycle than any similar amount by gram of glucose.

The body stores glycogen as a store of sugar but also fats and eating fat doesn't take less energy to store as the body dismantles all fat cells ingested and reconstructs them to the preferred length for storage in adipocytes.

Ultimately, the body is designed to use sugars as it has uses for fats, cholesterol and protein. Depriving the body of carbohydrates will only cause it to create them out of other things, at an energy expense. If you are trying to lose weight, cut down and reduce excess then all of these things are probably beneficial, to a degree.

If you are extremely active, the most efficient form of energy is and always will be glucose. The body does not maintain a set blood sugar level of glucose for no reason with the consequences of it being too low being death.

This doesn't mean you should only eat carbohydrates either. It depends on your body, your health, the ability of your pancreas to do its job (known as the spleen in Chinese Medicine and the function level of which is readily assessable by the pulse, tongue and symptom pattern) as well as activity levels. Glucose also contributes to osmosis and hydration by providing a blood substrate which attracts water into the lumen of the blood vessel from the interstices. Blood plasma proteins also have this function but in a person who is severely dehydrated again, sugars provide a rapid recovery mechanism while longer lasting foundations can be laid.

Basically sugar and carbohydrates govern energy supply to quick, rapidly starting and rapidly finishing activities (including cellular activities).. Fats supply energy for longer lasting but less vigorous activities and also have warming properties and proteins provide structural basis for much slower developing and longer lasting cellular activities.

Using the latter to perform the job of the former on an ongoing basis will deplete the ability of your kidney jing (prenatal life force) over time and the symptoms of ketosis are evidence of this.

You can do this for a while but it will eventually catch up with you, regardless of what you believe.

As for pre-industrial people being permanently ketoic.. This is speculation and mostly marketing on the behalf of the paleo crowd who want us to devolve back to cave man time where we were barely surviving let alone thriving. Staple foods of the most powerful empires on earth were those cultivated from wheat, barley, rice and corn.
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DezFranky
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby DezFranky » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Is there energy booster mantra that I can chant before a workout for better gains and better energy?

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Stormblood
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:13 pm

DezFranky wrote:Is there energy booster mantra that I can chant before a workout for better gains and better energy?


There are topics about physical fitness where this could be asked. Anyway, you can use any of these categories that sometimes interlace anyway:

• fire mantras (energy and/or rapid gains)
• water mantras (energy)
• solar mantras (energy)
• sacral chakra mantras (energy and gains)
• solar plexus mantras (energy)
• root chakra mantras (the root chakra rules over muscles if I'm not mistaken) - gains
• air chakras - energy
• earth mantras - steady gains
• runes like Ur and, indirectly, Sol and other runes

You should always program the energy and direct it to the goal.
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DezFranky
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby DezFranky » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:51 am

Stormblood wrote:
DezFranky wrote:Is there energy booster mantra that I can chant before a workout for better gains and better energy?


There are topics about physical fitness where this could be asked. Anyway, you can use any of these categories that sometimes interlace anyway:

• fire mantras (energy and/or rapid gains)
• water mantras (energy)
• solar mantras (energy)
• sacral chakra mantras (energy and gains)
• solar plexus mantras (energy)
• root chakra mantras (the root chakra rules over muscles if I'm not mistaken) - gains
• air chakras - energy
• earth mantras - steady gains
• runes like Ur and, indirectly, Sol and other runes

You should always program the energy and direct it to the goal.


Thank you always for your contributions. I also saw your posts about doing kundalini breathing or basic spinal energy and did 1 and 2. My back had spasms at first, but as I did it they disappeared. Number 2 sitting on my heals had my legs hurting for awhile haha from sitting on them. I've been doing cross-fit and exercising, eating well, doing money spells.


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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Aquarius » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:29 am

HP Mageson666 wrote:Cross-fit...... Be wary of that.
I think you mispelled it, it's cross-shit
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AscendingSun
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 pm

I've done keto before, 5 days no carbs, 2 days lot's of carbs, with intermittent fasting. Lot's of avocado and olive oil, grass fed bacon, cheese, etc. I felt great on it and it did help cut my body fat down but it was inconvenient and expensive (no cheap calories like rice and flour). Also my strength was a lot lower since my body didn't have enough glycogen in my muscles to do heavy lifting.

Centralforce666 wrote:At any rate, in the absence of adequate dietary glucose levels, the body has developed pathways to create glucose from protein and to even support the brain with toxic ketone bodies.. If a subsequent dietary protein deficiency occurs, prior to problems arising from urea buildup, the body will catabolism muscle fibres to obtain the glucogenic proteins it requires in order to survive...


Ketones are not toxic and ketoacidosis is only something you have to worry about if you're diabetic. You go into ketosis every night when you sleep..
A healthy body should be able to utilize fats and carbs for energy and ketones are just what your liver creates from fatty acids.

I believe it was Plato that said he fasted for greater mental and physical efficiency, ie. ketosis.

Centralforce666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:54 am

Yet the body does everything in its power to remove them.. Ketones that is.. From the blood circulation as quickly as possible.

Ketones are a survival mechanism, not a higher function and again, those that are young or do this for a short time probably won't experience major problems immediately but..

Ketogenic diets borrow from your kidney essence to provide energy and when that essence becomes depleted at a later age then the damage will be evident.

But don't listen to me.. I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to health.. I just read some websites and some studies and that's what I am basing my information on.. Oh and my limited experience in eating a keto diet whilst I was halfway through puberty.
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AscendingSun
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:52 pm

Centralforce666 wrote:Yet the body does everything in its power to remove them.. Ketones that is.. From the blood circulation as quickly as possible.

Ketones are a survival mechanism, not a higher function and again, those that are young or do this for a short time probably won't experience major problems immediately but..

Ketogenic diets borrow from your kidney essence to provide energy and when that essence becomes depleted at a later age then the damage will be evident.

But don't listen to me.. I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to health.. I just read some websites and some studies and that's what I am basing my information on.. Oh and my limited experience in eating a keto diet whilst I was halfway through puberty.


1. The body does not "do everything in its power to remove [ketones]. It uses them for energy like glucose. If you want to compare the toxicity of ketones to glucose, hyperglycemia is much more harmful. I think you are confusing ketisis with ketoacidosis.

2. Everything is a survival mechanism, I don't know what arbitrary distinction you are using here.

3. Ketosis causes slight acidity which can cause urine to be slightly acidic and can lead to kidney stones.

Yes I'm sure you have a bachelor's in sport medicine or whatever, I was formally educated as well.

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Stormblood
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:43 pm

The truth is ketogenic diet is too recent and too little experimented upon to draw enough evidence to support a definite conclusion.

It is normal for the body to get rid of ketones fast since it has genetically adapted to using carbs as the primary fuel after centuries of eating primarily that. We don't really know what people ate when there was the global Vedic empire. However, at any rate, we cannot set a default diet for everyone. A balanced diet has to do with species, race, the environment you live in, lifestyle (which includes your career and your athletic endeavours), the degree of one's spiritual advancement, and finally the balance of the doshas (pitta, kapha, vata) which relates to elemental balance. Perhaps more. To sum it up, these are the main factors that deal with a balanced diet:

» genetics
» environment
» lifestyle
» metagenetics (spirituality)

Not to mention, these could be subject to modifications if you have a goal in mind to lose fat or to gain muscle.

In my opinion, a ketogenic diet could be the most indicated for many people whose aim is to lose fat. I say 'could' because reports seem to agree. Personally, I haven't tried it yet and I don't think I could manage as there is not enough fats-rich food that I like that could put me in ketosis. Maybe if someone could start making healthy fat bars and treats just like there are many brands who deal in protein bars. Possibly with a high fibre content like these protein bars: https://www.amway.it/product/121609,pro ... el-flavour I'm not promoting these bars. I'm just using them as an example for the fibre content. There is a lot wrong with them, in fact, starting from the sunflower oil, extending to the form of vitamins and mineral used, etc.
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Aquarius
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Aquarius » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:34 pm

AscendingSun wrote:
Centralforce666 wrote:Yet the body does everything in its power to remove them.. Ketones that is.. From the blood circulation as quickly as possible.

Ketones are a survival mechanism, not a higher function and again, those that are young or do this for a short time probably won't experience major problems immediately but..

Ketogenic diets borrow from your kidney essence to provide energy and when that essence becomes depleted at a later age then the damage will be evident.

But don't listen to me.. I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to health.. I just read some websites and some studies and that's what I am basing my information on.. Oh and my limited experience in eating a keto diet whilst I was halfway through puberty.


1. The body does not "do everything in its power to remove [ketones]. It uses them for energy like glucose. If you want to compare the toxicity of ketones to glucose, hyperglycemia is much more harmful. I think you are confusing ketisis with ketoacidosis.

2. Everything is a survival mechanism, I don't know what arbitrary distinction you are using here.

3. Ketosis causes slight acidity which can cause urine to be slightly acidic and can lead to kidney stones.

Yes I'm sure you have a bachelor's in sport medicine or whatever, I was formally educated as well.
Lol, Centralforce is a medical student and studies traditional chinese medicine along with it. Not somekind of sport medicine or whatever, he for sure knows better than you.
Quando la Dea delle sventure mi abbracciò e spesso minacciò di schiacciarmi, la volontà di resistere crebbe, e infine quella volontà fu vittoriosa.

When the Goddess of trouble embraced me and often threatened to crush me, the will to resist grew, and at last that will was victorious.

Adolf Hitler

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Stormblood
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:33 pm

It's difficult to know better in a topic where researchers are either Jewish or still indoctrinated. We need SS researchers and research don't only keep to studying texts, but they actually experiment.
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AscendingSun
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:46 pm

Aquarius wrote:
AscendingSun wrote:
Centralforce666 wrote:Yet the body does everything in its power to remove them.. Ketones that is.. From the blood circulation as quickly as possible.

Ketones are a survival mechanism, not a higher function and again, those that are young or do this for a short time probably won't experience major problems immediately but..

Ketogenic diets borrow from your kidney essence to provide energy and when that essence becomes depleted at a later age then the damage will be evident.

But don't listen to me.. I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to health.. I just read some websites and some studies and that's what I am basing my information on.. Oh and my limited experience in eating a keto diet whilst I was halfway through puberty.


1. The body does not "do everything in its power to remove [ketones]. It uses them for energy like glucose. If you want to compare the toxicity of ketones to glucose, hyperglycemia is much more harmful. I think you are confusing ketisis with ketoacidosis.

2. Everything is a survival mechanism, I don't know what arbitrary distinction you are using here.

3. Ketosis causes slight acidity which can cause urine to be slightly acidic and can lead to kidney stones.

Yes I'm sure you have a bachelor's in sport medicine or whatever, I was formally educated as well.
Lol, Centralforce is a medical student and studies traditional chinese medicine along with it. Not somekind of sport medicine or whatever, he for sure knows better than you.


:?

Centralforce666
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:03 pm

The matter of whether or not ketones are toxic is fairly easy to asses.. Whilst the body uses them for energy, in the absence of carbohydrates this does not mean they are not toxic and the body does not try to do everything it can to remove them from circulation.

For instance, when you eat carbohydrates, the body does one of a few things with them - uses them immediately for energy by way of insulin directing cells to uptake it from the blood, storing it as carbohydrates as Glycogen in the liver and muscles or storing it as fat.

This indicates that the body finds carbohydrates useful and stores them for later use. There is no method by which the body attempts to store ketone bodies. If they are in the blood in any reasonable volume, as occurs in ketosis they pass the gloremular filtration mechanism of the kidneys to be passed in the urine. Glucose only makes it out this way in serious diseases such as advanced diabetes and severe hypertension or kidney damage. Ketones also pass through the alveoli in the lungs to be expelled and the main culprit for this is acetone.

Whilst this is one small part of the three ketone bodies, when one seeks to put themselves into a continuous state of ketosis and increase the ketone bodies in the blood then acetone levels will also rise. Acetone is definitely a poison and the liver has to break down what cannot be expelled continuously. Paracetamol also has a toxic by-product which the liver must break down and whilst low doses do not produce the same large scale systemic symptoms of poisoning, this toxic by product is harming the body in the interim.

Severe Acetone poisoning can produce a coma, low blood pressure, stupor and death - there is no treatment available therefore. Even mild acetone poisoning can produce a headache, slurred speech, lethargy and stupor.

The body knows what is good for it. It stores those things - fats and carbohydrates. Fats provide warmth and a storage facility for lipid soluble vitamins and hormones, vitamins essential for blood clotting pathways (vitamin K). Carbohydrates provide fuel for the brain and muscles and glycogen is a reserve for longer efforts. The body does not store proteins except to the extent that it is structurally built from them however excess protein must be and is removed from the blood when it is not required by metabolic processes - there are a few diseases that arise from excess protein consumption, the most obvious one which comes to mind being gout. Kidney damage and kidney stones are another possibility, when the stones are comprised of urea crystals.

Yes the body can use ketones if it has to, and it will readily in the absence of carbohydrates but I will get to why this isn't necessarily the best thing shortly..

Ketosis is a survival mechanism in the context of starvation. When the body is left without sufficient food, or glucose is unavailable, ketone bodies increase significantly and the body can live from them for a while, until it is able to find glucose again.

For instance a person who eats glucose regularly will be able to perform much more work, and go for a much longer period of time alive (albeit initially perhaps uncomfortable) than someone who has already starved themselves into ketosis, who is already 1/2 way to full starvation and only needs to go the extra half before serious complications occur.

Whilst starvation is hardly a concern for most western people, the damaging effects of prolonged starvation conditions on the organs *will* damage them on a micro level which may not be apparent now but in 20 years that damage will show.

The mere fact that ketone bodies can cause such a violent disturbance in the body's pH buffer system leading to systemic acidosis indicates what they are capable of.

Hyperglycaemia on the other hand takes years to produce its effects and these are mostly from mechanical stress on small capillaries by large unassimilated sugar crystals in the blood.

The worst problem with ketogenic diets and the like is that most of the people promoting them have an agenda. They want the science to look good because they want it to be attractive.

Its in their interests, based on whatever warped attitude through which they developed their agenda to push starvation conditions on everyone and claim that it is somehow 'the natural state of being'. Perhaps outside a civilisation this is true but the hallmarks of civilisations amongst other things are:

- a stable staple food source and,
- enough to go around (for at least the majority but this issue is more a historical one than a definitive one)

One only needs to glance at the rice fields in Asian countries, the corn fields of the South American pre-industrial civilisations and the wheat of the Europeans to note that carbohydrates are a huge part of keeping people fed, alive and functioning well.

Third world countries have had their agricultural practices squashed and their fields of crops are absent. The one thing that many still do have however is oats and/or rice in small amounts to attempt to keep themselves alive on a known source of sustenance for the body.

Does any of the above mean one should only eat carbohydrates and neglect all other macro nutrients like some kind of sugar fiend? Absolutely not but ketogenic diets are pushing and bordering starvation conditions which is fine if you plan to have a regular source of food and are Ok with the organ damage that this will do over the years that you choose to do it.

Also remember that we have to cut out of the diet - most fruits, starchy vegetables including pumpkin, squash, zucchini etc as these all contain significant carbohydrate content.

I tend to agree with Stormblood's assertion that it might be useful in a person who is attempting to lose weight however on a final note, I will say this:

The Chinese recognised that each organ had an associated flavour, and an associated smell which could be used to assess disease states of the body. Ketosis to any reasonable degree produces a sweet smell on the breath which indicates that the Spleen (actually pancreas) is in a state of crisis as sweet relates to the Earth element to which the sweet flavour is ascribed.

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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:29 pm

Centralforce666 wrote: There is no method by which the body attempts to store ketone bodies.


Because ketones are a product of the liver using fat which is stored by the body.


I agree with what you're saying though. Prolonged ketosis should only be a temporary fix during famine or whatever. Most of these fad diets have alternating carb days or something so they are in ketosis for a short period then knock themselves out of it.

I felt I needed to reply to this thread because it seemed to me there was a consensus that skipping breakfast and going into ketosis was going to kill you. I wake up do my morning routine and go straight to work usually and enter ketosis which I can always tell because I get cotton mouth. Or when I'm doing some kind of endurance training. And it feels good, my mind feels especially clear so I suspect fasting may have some therapeutic benefits.

When I eat too much carbs I get brainfog, hard to focus, so maybe it's personal preference. I feel much better on a higher fat lower carb diet



But while you're here, with the Chinese organ smells, HP Maxine mentioned there's a minty smell you get at higher level meditations and then there's a metallic smell called the Cup or Elixir of Poison, any insight?

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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:20 pm

Why would the body need to store ketones instead of expelling the unused ones? Most people already have an excessive reservoir of energy stored as fat. It's a fact that most people never tap into their excess fat for energy but they keep topping it off with more food, mostly carbohydrates. Also, why would the body need excess ketones and acetone? If it does, it means you're eating too much and you should be eating less.

Of course the body doesn't store protein. It is converted in the material needed to repair muscles.

Is ketosis really a survival mechanism or is it actually the natural mechanism of the body, while the common state of the body is actually what has been induced through excess carbohydrates throughout the time Jews have overruled the food industry and thus the common state your body has become accustomed to it? If I didn't know you actually have studied Traditional Chinese Medicine and that your expertise has helped countless people in this forum and in the group, I would say you speak like an Italian who doesn't want to give up the excessive amounts of refined pasta he eats every day and wants to turn away others from such ideas.

How is ketosis starvation? There is a fallacy in your whole argument: earlier you pointed out what happens with excessive eating in a diet based around ketones, now you jump to starvation, which basically goes from eating too little to not eating. How is that supposed to prove a point? On the other hand, it's a fact that excessive amounts of sugar clog blood vessels (unlike cholesterol) and can lead to diabetes, while a ketogenic diet reverses both diabetes and heals epilepsy. Excessive amounts of carbohydrates, especially the complex ones, damage the liver and the pancreas, making them go in hypertrophy. Excesses are bad in every kind of nutrients.

More questions coming. How do you know that the history talking about rice, corn and wheat crops are not just as corrupt as the rest of history who would have us as savages in 10,000 BCE when instead we built the pyramids in that times and we were already a thriving civilisation? Also from where are you implying that there are absolutely no carbohydrates on a ketogenic diet, whilst in every source I found the recommendation is not to avoid carbohydrates but to restrict them to below 15-20 grams per meal and only consider net carbohydrates?

In conclusion, I want to point out that ketosis does NOT produce a sweet smell. That is ketoacidosis, which is some kind of ailment. I stand my ground that we need SS researchers: not to study the works of the brainwashed and the Jews but to experiment on many people and determine with their eyes and minds what is real and what is not. I know I'm stubborn but that's how I see it.


Centralforce666 wrote:...
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:39 am

You have taken a great deal of what I have said out of context to attempt to justify your point...

I was not referring to ketoic diets when I mentioned excesses of consumption of fats and proteins, I was merely pointing out the by products of eating those nutrients in isolation IE too much carbs = bad but too much protein and too much fat = bad also.

Furthermore, you have stated some things which are incorrect. Sugar does not clog anything, unless you are diabetic as blood sugar levels are kept in check by insulin - if we aren't going to consider diabetic acidosis as a potential side effect of keto diets then by logic nor should we consider diabetic conditions in normal *carb heavy* diets. Blood vessels become occluded from smooth muscle cell proliferation around minor traumas in the cell walls, changes which occur in the first decade of life. Low density lipoprotein molecules can then become stuck in the narrower vessels which is the standard coronary artery disease presentation. There is also a whole nother aspect involving blood clotting factors etc. Which doesn't fall under the banner of cholesterol either. Sugar is soluble in water and considering the blood is water, sugar cannot physically build up except when the blood is saturated with sugar which only occurs in diabetes.

Chinese Medicine abhors fasting in all its forms as it borrows from Kidney Essence to support the functions of the body. Again, as stated previously this largely depends on your activity levels, amount of body fat etc.etc. Not every person on the planet is walking around with an abundance of body fat and one look at an elderly person or an active teenager will tell you this. There is a world outside the obesity epidemic.

Without a rich history in flour and wheat, would there be cultures thoroughly adept at making bread and other flour derived products?

The rice fields tell their own story. I don't need to look in a history book to know what I can see in the world around us.

And, since none of us were around in 10,000 BCE there is little to no point discussing it for the purpose of this discussion, however Paleo and keto pushers happily cite that they somehow *know* this to be true yet we have no evidence??

I beg to differ that ketosis to any degree will not produce a sweet smell. I have seen this in athletic people and people who just plain starve themselves in order to stay slim. It is likely that you wouldn't be able to taste it yourself but a cotton mouth is an indicator that something highly volatile is evaporating the moisture in your mouth as it passes through. Acetone.. Which stinks. And is poison. Go and drink a cup or better yet inject some into your veins and come back to tell us all how pleasant that experience was. I don't actually suggest you do that by any means..

For people looking to clear off extra fat or get rid of some toxic wastes from a sedentary lifestyle and the particularly young (teens to mid 20's) may derive some benefit from intermittent fasting etc provided it doesn't take away from their energy requirements. Highly active people, people who work alot and use and move their bodies frequently, usually only stopping to sleep will suffer badly from these kinds of diets particularly as they get older.

I have done fasting.

I've eaten high fat moderate protein and low carb diets.

I've eaten basically every kind of diet you could think of including raw food with the exception of total vegetarian or vegan.

High protein and high fat foods bog down digestion and create stagnation, phlegm and dampness.

Not eating enough creates deficiency.

Yin deficiency in the early stages actually feels good as there is an excess of energy.

Heart Fire feels good.

Cocaine feels good.

But that doesn't mean it's not doing damage or isn't altogether that good for you.

It also means it won't necessarily kill you if you do it once or even twice or even for a few years.

But every thing you do has a flow on effect to other things and you asked me what they were so I'm letting you all know what the risks of Paleo and keto diets are.

After all, we are carbon based lifeforms whose main constituent is water.. So why wouldn't we eat large amounts of CHO to keep ourselves alive and functioning?
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:23 pm

Centralforce666 wrote:You have taken a great deal of what I have said out of context to attempt to justify your point...


No, I didn't. I'm simply good at finding logical fallacies in arguments of other people. Not so much mine, unfortunately.

I pointed out that too much sugar clogs blood vessels up because that's what happens. It used to be blamed on cholesterol in order to let the food industry still keep promoting sugars. That's all about my example. Side effects come from imbalances and overconsumption, not from eating moderate quantities of everything. Low-density lipoprotein... in other words, LDL which is one form of cholesterol, if my human biology studies serve me right. You're blaming on cholesterol what has nothing to do with it. It's just a silent agreement between medical doctors and the food industry to blame ailments on stuff that has nothing to do with it, in order to let the food industry promote sugar as much as they want to. Cholesterol is also produced by the body. When you get too much from the food you eat, the body produces less of it to keep the levels in balance; when you get too little of it, the body produces more for the same reason. In conclusion, high cholesterol is not a real thing as it really has no such repercussions as described earlier. I've been eating a diet high in eggs for a long time. My blood analysis always turned out perfect. I wonder why...


Centralforce666 wrote:Sugar is soluble in water and considering the blood is water, sugar cannot physically build up except when the blood is saturated with sugar which only occurs in diabetes.


And here you contradict yourself. Either sugar cannot physically build in one's blood or it can happen. Which of the two? My note: the second, which also occurs through overconsumption of sugar and it's called diabetes, yes.

Centralforce666 wrote:Chinese Medicine abhors fasting in all its forms as it borrows from Kidney Essence to support the functions of the body. Again, as stated previously this largely depends on your activity levels, amount of body fat etc.etc. Not every person on the planet is walking around with an abundance of body fat and one look at an elderly person or an active teenager will tell you this. There is a world outside the obesity epidemic.


Nobody is promoting fasting here. Not me and neither ketogenic diets. I don't get where you got the idea that you necessarily have to fast if you want to eat more fats than carbs. It doesn't work like that. If we're going by the same science you go by, then there exists a chart that details fat levels percentages and rightfully divides them into classes. Most people really have an abundance of fat storage. For example, in men the first range is called "essential fat" and this is where nobody should ever be. For men, it ranges from 2-5% of body fat, which means that your body weight is made from 2-5% of fat. Let's keep going with men. The next range is from 6-13% which is the Athletic range and is the most desirable because it is the image of the strong man and it's probably what a man would look like if they were modelled on the Greek Statues. From 14-17% you got the Fitness range, which can be considered a good range if you are not particularly active in your lifestyle and career. It is acceptable, yes, but you still have a little more fat than you actually need. After all, we aren't going to lack food to eat anytime soon. From 18-22% you got the "Acceptable" range... acceptable according to this society's standards, which are lacking and promote being fat through eating at fast foods because one is just too lazy to organise their time better and cook. Let's face it. Here you already have a good quantity of excessive body fat. From 23% onward, I don't even want to mention what lies there. Let's just say there are actually two ranges and they are called "Overweight" and "Obese". Bodybuilders don't count in this chart, as they don't even look human. So let's leave them out. For women, let's just say they need more fat, which is understandable when you know about the three doshas.

Getting yourself accustomed to slow-realising energy sources will teach your body to manage your energies better, which is more important than having everything ready on the plate for the taking. That is so wrong. It's like giving money to beggars instead of teaching them a job so they can earn for themselves. So wrong.

Centralforce666 wrote:And, since none of us was around in 10,000 BCE there is little to no point discussing it for the purpose of this discussion, however, Paleo and keto pushers happily cite that they somehow *know* this to be true yet we have no evidence??


Weren't we? Do you know exactly how many reincarnations you had, when and where exactly did you reincarnate each time? Some people might have memories that predate even the arrival of the Jews on this planet five thousand years ago. It's all a matter of regressing and learning from it. I've done regressions in the past, but I only recovered a few memories, none of which is actually old enough to be of support in this subject.


Centralforce666 wrote:I beg to differ that ketosis to any degree will not produce a sweet smell. I have seen this in athletic people and people who just plain starve themselves in order to stay slim. It is likely that you wouldn't be able to taste it yourself but a cottonmouth is an indicator that something highly volatile is evaporating the moisture in your mouth as it passes through. Acetone... Which stinks. And is poison. Go and drink a cup or better yet inject some into your veins and come back to tell us all how pleasant that experience was. I don't actually suggest you do that by any means.


And I say it again. Ketosis and starvation are two different things. That doesn't any proof. It's logic. Starvation is when you don't eat. Diabetes is bad as well.

Centralforce666 wrote:For people looking to clear off extra fat or get rid of some toxic wastes from a sedentary lifestyle and the particularly young (teens to mid-20's) may derive some benefit from intermittent fasting etc provided it doesn't take away from their energy requirements.


Extra fat also comes from unhealthy eating and sleeping too little. You may be as active as you want but, if you eat unhealthy foods, you will still retain some extra fat. Intermittent fasting is what I do. I eat all that I need during an 8-hour window, then stop eating for the other 16 hours of the day. Yet, when I keep my diet tightly in check, as opposed to loosely, I never get to even 50% carbs. My go-to division for macronutrients is 33% carbs, 33% proteins and 34% fats from the healthiest foods I can afford. Thanks to this and physical training, I had an overwhelmingly good re-shaping in just 2 months, which was then very slightly refined in the next 7 months. I've never gained any fat at all later, even when I go off the self-prescribed percentage division and eat according to what body tells me.

I've never gone with raw anything, because it disgusts me but I would like to take milk directly from a grass-fed cow or goat, heat it up and drink it, instead of keep going with organic whole milk from the store, which is surely laced with preservatives, even though tasting much better than non-organic milk.

Centralforce666 wrote:After all, we are carbon-based lifeforms whose main constituent is water. So why wouldn't we eat large amounts of CHO to keep ourselves alive and functioning?


Water is H20. Carbon is C. So, no. There is actually no water in carbon. At all. Carbs are not the only nutrient to include both hydrogen, oxygen and carbon. Proteins are polymer chains made of amino acids which are linked together by peptide bonds. Some amino acids contain all three elements you mentioned: valine (essential), isoleucine (essential), asparagine (non-essential). They also contain nitrogen, which makes up most of the atmosphere anyway, and some contain other elements (Sulphur and Selenium). Fats/triglycerides are essentially made of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen as well.


Centralforce666 wrote:Without a rich history in flour and wheat, would there be cultures thoroughly adept at making bread and other flour derived products?

Actually, yes. But it depends on what you intend for a rich culture. If about two at most is a rich culture for you, as opposed to tens of thousands of years, then no. To me, two thousand years is really very little in comparison. What I'm saying is that we only have the narrative about what Jews wanted us to know and on this contradicting narrative we are basing our arguments. Even important texts spiritual texts from India, China and what-not are heavily corrupted to this day or we could read the Vedas and become gods on ourselves without any further guidance from our beloved Gods. We SS had to uncover many real things with very intense effort. I feel that this might be a corruption and there's no real evidence to go by, other than what the kikes let through. Do you understand where I'm coming from? I'm not trying to undermine your reputation and knowledge. I'm proposing that corruption not only extends to spirituality and history but many other things as well, including food. In Europe, the Jews have been in charge since the Flavian dynasty ruled the Roman Empire, then again when Constantine, Theodosius and whoever succeeded these emperors. Throughout the whole Middle Age, they have kept power through the Vatican and they still have a lot of power, that we are gradually crushing. It's perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, to have doubts about food as well, since they have always tried to poison us Gentiles, including food poisoning. Aren't carbohydrates related to the Sun? We know that excessive amounts of sunlight, physically, harm the body and speed up ageing.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:43 am

Stormblood wrote:Why would the body need to store ketones instead of expelling the unused ones? Most people already have an excessive reservoir of energy stored as fat. It's a fact that most people never tap into their excess fat for energy but they keep topping it off with more food, mostly carbohydrates. Also, why would the body need excess ketones and acetone? If it does, it means you're eating too much and you should be eating less.

Of course the body doesn't store protein. It is converted in the material needed to repair muscles.

Is ketosis really a survival mechanism or is it actually the natural mechanism of the body, while the common state of the body is actually what has been induced through excess carbohydrates throughout the time Jews have overruled the food industry and thus the common state your body has become accustomed to it? If I didn't know you actually have studied Traditional Chinese Medicine and that your expertise has helped countless people in this forum and in the group, I would say you speak like an Italian who doesn't want to give up the excessive amounts of refined pasta he eats every day and wants to turn away others from such ideas.

How is ketosis starvation? There is a fallacy in your whole argument: earlier you pointed out what happens with excessive eating in a diet based around ketones, now you jump to starvation, which basically goes from eating too little to not eating. How is that supposed to prove a point? On the other hand, it's a fact that excessive amounts of sugar clog blood vessels (unlike cholesterol) and can lead to diabetes, while a ketogenic diet reverses both diabetes and heals epilepsy. Excessive amounts of carbohydrates, especially the complex ones, damage the liver and the pancreas, making them go in hypertrophy. Excesses are bad in every kind of nutrients.

More questions coming. How do you know that the history talking about rice, corn and wheat crops are not just as corrupt as the rest of history who would have us as savages in 10,000 BCE when instead we built the pyramids in that times and we were already a thriving civilisation? Also from where are you implying that there are absolutely no carbohydrates on a ketogenic diet, whilst in every source I found the recommendation is not to avoid carbohydrates but to restrict them to below 15-20 grams per meal and only consider net carbohydrates?

In conclusion, I want to point out that ketosis does NOT produce a sweet smell. That is ketoacidosis, which is some kind of ailment. I stand my ground that we need SS researchers: not to study the works of the brainwashed and the Jews but to experiment on many people and determine with their eyes and minds what is real and what is not. I know I'm stubborn but that's how I see it.


Centralforce666 wrote:...


Stormblood, net carbs mean you subtract the fiber from the total carbs.




My main point of confusion Centralforce666, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't all fat metabolism involve turning fat into ketones? So are you asserting burning any fat is unhealthy?

I mean look at the Greeks, lot's of fats; olive oil, fish, milk, cheese, along with bread beans and olives. They drank a shot of olive oil before going to work in the fields all day.


The FDA recommends 65g of fat and 300g of carbs per 2000 Cal, you agree with this? The "Obesity Epidemic" coincided with the 1977 US Dietary Goals. We don't have a problem with ketone poisoning (I've never heard of such a thing) in western countries, it's diabetes and heart disease.
I've seen many testimonials and bloodwork of people curing prediabetes and insulin resistance by doing paleo or keto. And I would note jews hate paleo (http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.co ... paleo.html).




The reason people have problem with lower carb diets is the lack of fiber with calorie dense food imo.


And if you've taken organic chemistry, I'm sure you know that carbs, fats, and amino acids are all carbon based..

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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:15 pm

Once again.

Most if what I have said has been considered in isolation and ignoring alot of what else I have said with regards to other things.

I am not going to repeat them all as the post would be too lengthy. Unfortunately your ability to find 'logical fallacies' only extends to what you can pick apart to support your own argument. Which indicates to me you are not interested in learning anything much at all but simply trying to validate your own ideas.

Which indicates an agenda about what you are pushing.

This idea that sugar blocks blood vessels is ludicrous at best. And my supposed 'contradiction' is a simple fact of a solution and saturated solution. A simple experiment for you is to go and dissolve some sugar in 37 degree water. Keep adding sugar and stirring vigorously until you start to see sugar crystals form. At the start it is like the blood when there is a steady sugar state. At the end it is when the sugar has not been regulated properly.

Now try the same experiment with fat. Add a small amount of detergent to simulate the fat transporting molecules. There will still be a thick film of crap on top of the water. This blocks blood vessels which are narrow due to smooth muscle proliferation after trauma. End of story. Cholesterol is essential to human health yes but it also gets excreted in bile when there is an excess. You can eat eggs all day for 20 years and not get a rise in blood cholesterol if other homeostatic checks are in place.

I am not promoting a carb only diet here I am merely trying to provide balance to this notion that all carbon HYDRATES are inherently bad. Carbon does not contain water (which I never actually stated you just read it this way) but carbohydrates are carbon and water and when they are digested under aerobic conditions the only two waste products are carbon dioxide and water unlike proteins which produce urea and fats which produce ketones that then need to be excreted or detoxified by the liver in the case of acetone. So really, a keto diet puts strain on the liver and eating carbs does not and I don't know where this idea came from but I suspect it is MUS.

What I am saying about fasting is that this is the way that ketosis normally occurs. And the resultant mechanisms are a product thereof. Yes we produce ketones when we burn fat or when we eat excesses of ketogenic proteins. But not the high level that occurs when eating keto diets etc. This is a matter of levels and low levels of ketones are fine because the body can deal with them just as low levels of sugar in the blood are fine because the body can deal with them. Amp those levels up due to diabetes, large meals or crazy fad diets with no basis other than *that's what cavemen did so let's all devolve back to their level* and there will be problems.

The trick to diet is balance, eating according to one's energy requirements and remembering, as I stated early in the peace that carbohydrates support rapidly starting and rapidly finishing activities, fats warm and support longer efforts and proteins support the body structurally. These are different things for different uses and people have a wide variety of current body states as you said there's a whole chart for this so assuming that everyone is in one place and therefore the same diet applies to everyone is downright ignorant.

I'd also like to add that carbohydrates have a role is easing and tonifying digestion. The Chinese herb Jing Mi which is cooked rice (cooked more like a congee than just straight) is included in Chinese Herbal formulae where there are harsher herbs in order to moderate their effect on the digestion and aid digestive capacity.

So, for the young whose digestion tends to be strong, eating high fat, high protein, low carb diets might be fine but as you get older, carbohydrates can help to aid digestive ability. And the choices you make when you are young will have an impact on your body as I have described more than enough in this thread, despite the fact that you simply choose to ignore most of it and then overlay some strange ideas on the basis of pointing out my logical fallacies.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:50 am

Centralforce666 wrote:Once again.

Most if what I have said has been considered in isolation and ignoring alot of what else I have said with regards to other things.

I am not going to repeat them all as the post would be too lengthy. Unfortunately your ability to find 'logical fallacies' only extends to what you can pick apart to support your own argument. Which indicates to me you are not interested in learning anything much at all but simply trying to validate your own ideas.

Which indicates an agenda about what you are pushing.


If you can't see what you're doing, is not my fault. So much for pushing an "agenda" about Jewish corrupted knowledge... yes, as if everything we read is true. I wish it was like that but life on a Jewish-infested planet is not that easy. It is normal to only pick the information one disagrees with, you know? There's no point in quoting what we already agree with, as that is already understandable from my writing.



Centralforce666 wrote:This idea that sugar blocks blood vessels is ludicrous at best. And my supposed 'contradiction' is a simple fact of a solution and saturated solution. A simple experiment for you is to go and dissolve some sugar in 37 degree water. Keep adding sugar and stirring vigorously until you start to see sugar crystals form. At the start it is like the blood when there is a steady sugar state. At the end it is when the sugar has not been regulated properly.


You cannot say that something does not do something, then make an example where it actually does. Either too much sugar has the ability to do that, as we've both stated (one more clearly than the other), or it does not. There is no "it doesn't do that except yada yada". I've always talked about excesses, you come in to mock my arguments by purposefully leaving aside the "excess" part. Who is cherry-picking here?

Centralforce666 wrote:I am not promoting a carb only diet here I am merely trying to provide balance to this notion that all carbon HYDRATES are inherently bad. Carbon does not contain water (which I never actually stated you just read it this way) but carbohydrates are carbon and water and when they are digested under aerobic conditions the only two waste products are carbon dioxide and water unlike proteins which produce urea and fats which produce ketones that then need to be excreted or detoxified by the liver in the case of acetone. So really, a keto diet puts strain on the liver and eating carbs does not and I don't know where this idea came from but I suspect it is MUS.


I've never promoted that carbohydrates are inherently bad either. You are confusing with someone else. I asked if carbohydrates are essential. It emerged that:

• they are but in low quantities, which I believe is correct;
• they are a preferable source of energy according to addicted people;
• they can be eaten in moderate quantities without any side effects other than addiction plus a lethargic feeling in some people, including me.

Then you went on a rampage in the attempt to discredit fats at all costs, in order to put carbohydrates in the best possible light. You keep pushing ketones as a waste product when, according to the same science you're basing yourself on, they are not. If ketones were really a waste product and not an energy source, then glucose would be a waste product as well and it's not. Protein in moderate amounts is needed for muscle growth, muscle repair and tissue repair. Get over it. The human body cannot heal damaged tissue without amino acids, some vitamins and minerals.

Sure. A strain on the liver. It's not like meat and eggs are digested faster than grains, right? It's not like herbivores have very long digestive systems, while carnivores have short ones. Eat pasta at dinner and you will detract from the liver more time, time that should be instead used for detoxification purposes as that's the purpose of the liver at night.

Centralforce666 wrote:What I am saying about fasting is that this is the way that ketosis normally occurs. And the resultant mechanisms are a product thereof. Yes we produce ketones when we burn fat or when we eat excesses of ketogenic proteins. But not the high level that occurs when eating keto diets etc. This is a matter of levels and low levels of ketones are fine because the body can deal with them just as low levels of sugar in the blood are fine because the body can deal with them. Amp those levels up due to diabetes, large meals or crazy fad diets with no basis other than *that's what cavemen did so let's all devolve back to their level* and there will be problems.


You mean "normally in a society addicted to eating sugar as its primary source of energy". We know nothing of what cavemen did, as that phase was many hundreds of thousand years ago.

Centralforce666 wrote:The trick to diet is balance, eating according to one's energy requirements and remembering, as I stated early in the peace that carbohydrates support rapidly starting and rapidly finishing activities, fats warm and support longer efforts and proteins support the body structurally. These are different things for different uses and people have a wide variety of current body states as you said there's a whole chart for this so assuming that everyone is in one place and therefore the same diet applies to everyone is downright ignorant.


Which is what you've been doing since your second post on this thread, since you started your whole campaign against fats.

Centralforce666 wrote:I'd also like to add that carbohydrates have a role is easing and tonifying digestion. The Chinese herb Jing Mi which is cooked rice (cooked more like a congee than just straight) is included in Chinese Herbal formulae where there are harsher herbs in order to moderate their effect on the digestion and aid digestive capacity.


So easing that eating pasta, bread and the likes take a lot longer to digest. Oh, I see what's going on here.

Centralforce666 wrote:So, for the young whose digestion tends to be strong, eating high fat, high protein, low carb diets might be fine but as you get older, carbohydrates can help to aid digestive ability. And the choices you make when you are young will have an impact on your body as I have described more than enough in this thread, despite the fact that you simply choose to ignore most of it and then overlay some strange ideas on the basis of pointing out my logical fallacies.


Sure. Let's also neglect spiritual practice and the fact that empowering the solar plexus chakra, physically also strengthens the digestive fire. Let's base ourselves only on the material aspect. Keep morphing my arguments from "excess sugar is bad" to "any amount of sugar is bad" and from "promoting fats as a primary source of energy" to Wpromoting excess fats".

If you keep doing that, you can keep arguing all you want. I won't reply anymore on that bias on blinkers. The only things we actually disagree with are:
• cholesterol clogs up arteries and
• carbohydrate ease digestion.

I believe none of that was the point of the topic. Nonetheless, we both expressed our contrasting knowledge on that.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:37 pm

AscendingSun wrote:... We don't have a problem with ketone poisoning (I've never heard of such a thing) in western countries, it's diabetes and heart disease.
I've seen many testimonials and bloodwork of people curing prediabetes and insulin resistance by doing paleo or keto. ...

And if you've taken organic chemistry, I'm sure you know that carbs, fats, and amino acids are all carbon based..


Ketone poisoning is ketoacidosis. Once again, only occurs once the homeostatic processes break down which normally regulate pH buffers.

I am referring to long term hidden damage.

Anyone who wants to test this theory is more than welcome to - perhaps a quick look at the tongue when in the middle of ketosis might show how ketosis affects the body. Thick coatings, strong colours - basically anything other than a pink tongue with a thin white coating indicates something is not right.

And yes they are all carbon based but my point is that carbohydrates are ONLY water and carbon, albeit in a slightly different molecular formation (ie the hydroxyl group).

Stormblood wrote:You cannot say that something does not do something, then make an example where it actually does. Either too much sugar has the ability to do that, as we've both stated (one more clearly than the other), or it does not. There is no "it doesn't do that except yada yada". I've always talked about excesses, you come in to mock my arguments by purposefully leaving aside the "excess" part. Who is cherry-picking here?

Except that you are ignoring two basic things - the fact that the normal healthy human body regulates blood sugar by pushing glucose in the blood back into cells when it is too high AND basic solution chemistry.

If you did the experiment I mentioned, you would see what a saturated solution looks like and is and you are saying that we need Satanic researchers yet you cannot go and perform a simple experiment. Excesses yes but the point is that the body regulates these things. You can eat excess carbohydrates and not have a problem with high blood sugar except for a spike 30 minutes after the main meal which is not going to clog arteries.

This only occurs in the diabetic.. which since I wasn't allowed to consider the coma that ketones put diabetics in, I figured it is only fair not to discuss diabetes at all in the context of this discussion.

More or less, yes I can say sugar does not clog blood vessels, BUT when the blood sugar levels are ridiculously high, as ONLY OCCURS IN DIABETES, then the blood becomes saturated and small capillaries become obstructed with them, which does not lead to coronary heart disease, but peripheral neuropathy and rot. Diabetics only. Saturated solution situation only. Basic principle of science.

Stormblood wrote: they are a preferable source of energy according to addicted people;


They are a preferable energy source for quick energy for fast activities that start quickly and finish quickly.

Or for highly active people. I've said this a few times.

Stormblood wrote: they can be eaten in moderate quantities without any side effects other than addiction plus a lethargic feeling in some people, including me.


Lethargy after eating anything is normal, unless it lasts for significant periods of time or is debilitating. If either of these conditions are met alongside frequent urination, then we are talking about diabetes.

Most people are addicted to air too in fact, while we're at it lets consider people's addiction to food full stop. How dare they.

[quote='Stormblood']Then you went on a rampage in the attempt to discredit fats at all costs, in order to put carbohydrates in the best possible light. You keep pushing ketones as a waste product when, according to the same science you're basing yourself on, they are not. If ketones were really a waste product and not an energy source, then glucose would be a waste product as well and it's not. Protein in moderate amounts is needed for muscle growth, muscle repair and tissue repair. Get over it. The human body cannot heal damaged tissue without amino acids, some vitamins and minerals.

Sure. A strain on the liver. It's not like meat and eggs are digested faster than grains, right? It's not like herbivores have very long digestive systems, while carnivores have short ones. Eat pasta at dinner and you will detract from the liver more time, time that should be instead used for detoxification purposes as that's the purpose of the liver at night.

I am not attempting to discredit fats or proteins. I am simply pointing out that these supposed arguments against carbohydrates are balanced again similar metabolic waste products and strains on the body.

I have even stated what you have about proteins and yet I need to "Get over it". This ires of a poor attitude towards anyone who disagrees with you, regardless of how right or wrong they are. I feel by starting this thread you were hoping for some kind of validation of what you believe to be true and the facts have annoyed you.. that's fine but its also your problem, not mine.

Glucose and ketone bodies are nothing like each other. Ketones are a waste product that can be used for energy sure, but they also require detoxification and excretion as they are. Glucose is never excreted except in once again diabetes.

Meat and eggs are not digested faster than carbohydrates. I don't understand where this idea comes from but it shows a poor understanding of human physiology.

Carbohydrate digestion begins in the mouth where salivary amylase begins cleaving glucose, fructose molecules from starches and breaking them down into free sugars. Carbohydrate metabolism is then HALTED by gastric acid because if it continued in the stomach, the sugar rush into your blood would be so hard and fast we would all be diabetic after our first meal.

Amino acids are denatured partly by gastric acid and fats kind of just sit there. This is why fats calm the stomach because not much happens to them there and amino acid denaturing is not complete but enough to inactivate enzymes etc. that might harm the small intestine.

From there, the small intestine along with secretions from the pancreas, begins to digest all nutrients through the actions of pancreatic lipase, pancreatic protease and pancreatic amylase. Simple carbohydrates are absorbed in the first part of the small intestine. Complex carbohydrates which take longer to break down are absorbed in the ileum, the final part of the small intestine or after microbiotic breakdown in the large intestine.

Fats are absorbed once broken into small enough pieces and taken up by carrier proteins. They do not go into the blood. They are absorbed into lymphatic drainage structures which then must be taken by the slow movement of lymph to be drained into the vena cava. This takes time.

Amino acids are cleaved into their constituents and go into the blood stream.

Both amino acids and carbohydrates arrive at the liver. The Liver's sole job in the metabolism of carbohydrates is glycogenesis and glycolysis as well as preparing excess carbohydrates for storage as fat.

With regards to fats and amino acids however, the liver is required to oxidise triglycerides, create lipoproteins for fat transport and process cholesterol, then excreting excess cholesterol and phospholipids via the bile as the main excretory organ for both of these things.

Amino acids are deanimated and transanimated in the liver, ammonia is metabolised to urea in the liver, non-essential amino acids are created in the liver and plasma proteins as well as clotting factors are made from digested amino acids in the liver.

So the liver has a lot to do, all the time. I can see how one might say that collectively, since the liver is required to perform so many other tasks with regards to fats and proteins, lets omit the carbohydrate portion and let it do its other jobs right?

My personal experience with people who have liver issues however is that heavy foods like fats and proteins in large amounts or eaten exclusively actually reproduces liver'y' symptoms. So the jury is not out on that one but at least people reading this can have an overview that isn't merely opinion.

With regards to herbivores digestive systems, many herbivores have the ability to digest cellulose which takes a really long time, hence why they have long digestive systems. And, last I checked, the human digestive system is around 8 metres long in a healthy adult (and this is not a jewish lie, I have seen cadavers and their digestive systems) which suggests we are built to eat at least some herby products ie plants which funnily enough contain carbohydrates in high amounts. Usually.



Sugar and carbohydrates are the same thing but not the same thing if that makes sense. Complex carbohydrates are a source of simple sugars but without the high spike of blood sugar. You seem to consider carbohydrates as a whole in this category.

What of wholemeal grains and the carbohydrates in fruits?

I guess my point is that no matter what your energy source, there are good points and bad points. Since this discussion was about the greatness of proteins and fats, I am merely attempting to balance the discussion with what is also bad about those two things and what is good about carbohydrates.

Everyone who attends and reads these forums is welcome to make whatever decision they please, based on the information available to them. There is plenty of information out there about the evils of carbs and the greatness of fats and proteins.

There is also information out there about the evils of fats and proteins and the greatness of carbs, albeit from a purely vegan or vegetarian viewpoint.

I am neither of those things, paleo, vegan, vegetarian or otherwise.

I am attempting to bring balance to the discussion. Nothing more.

I eat meat and protein and everything else. But I also eat considerable amounts of carbs in the forms of fresh fruit, oats, wholemeal rice, noodles and wholemeal pasta because I am particularly active, engaging in moderate to high intensity activity on more than 4 days per week for up to 2-3 hours at a time.

If I were more sedentary, I would eat differently.

Some of the heavier foods ie nuts etc. actually make me tired. Carbs provide a reliable energy source that doesn't upset my digestion particularly when I am on the go. They also don't contribute to the stomach fire that I have a propensity to develop as a result of my constitution.

My blood cholesterol is good.

My blood sugar at any given time is actually on the low side, and sits at a little under 4 mmol/L on fasting.

The wholemeal carbohydrates that I consume promotes a greater fibre intake and with a family history of Crohn's disease, a little bowel health goes a long way.

When I have previously eaten a high protein, high fat, low carb diet I was lifting weights every 2nd day and ate like this for 8 months. I was sleeping 12 hours a night and put on 15 kg - all muscle - however I was also constipated and had other issues (like a really bad temper). Granted there were other factors involved, not just diet but since then my weight has normalised (I rapidly lost that 15 kg after reverting to a normal diet with minimal exercise) and I have come to the conclusion that a balanced diet with adequate servings of all macronutrients is what provides me with the most steady energy levels, the soundest sleep and the trade-off between bowel health and asthetic pleasure.

If you aren't interested in my opinion on these matters, that is fine but if you ask a question and direct it to me, I will answer you with the same level of passion that drives me to help my Brothers and Sisters in Satan with their health. Quite frankly, if my level of passion irritates you, then perhaps you should ask someone else.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby TheFlea » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:49 pm

Stormblood what's up with you man? Its hard to tell for sure over a screen but I've been sensing the same arrogant and combative attitude from you that I see in the new age goobers where I live. Its not just you, I've seen this in a few other seasoned, non-clergy members as well.

You addressed the topic to Centralforce and asked his input, but then began arguing with him and belittling his viewpoints? My child does that, and I admittedly but successfully catch and stop myself from doing that as well from time to time I guess. Its just surprising to see on here.

I'm not trying to offend you, but though I don't post much, I do follow the forums heavily between RTR's and this attitude is something I see consistently. I feel like somebody should say something. If I'm over the top mods, feel free to deny my post or edit it to your liking.

You even seemed to take problem with HP Don's advice on the Atkins diet (which nearly killed my aunt btw). It seems the only people you don't argue with or automatically dispute are the sisters, such as HPS Shannon, Johnson Akemi or especially Lydia. I hope I'm not out of line saying this but every time I see you interact with them, I can't help but think of my cousin who will agree only with the female co-workers, because he hopes they will shower him with some kind of praise or approval of some kind, or a few he secretly has a thing for.

Being around for a long while and on the different forums, to me it seems like long-time SS, once they reach a certain level of advancement or activity on the forums or gain a following, start to become combative, arrogant and argumentative. I've seen a few even heatedly dispute the HP/HPS of the clergy in their own sermons... Or even try to "correct" or "educate" them in certain matters. I know some know who I'm referring to. Clergy are clergy for a reason and the others are not clergy for that reason and others as well. Some even try to post sermons of theirs as well as if they were clergy, because they were "intuitively" led And spoken to...

I'm getting off topic I'm sorry. Its just it would be a shame if Centralforce ever got worn down or tired of the attitude he encounters and decided to slow or even stop the help he gives the many people that HP Hoodedcobra mentioned who truly appreciate and greatly need his help. Considering I don't see many members who are as well versed in Chinese medicine or the lesser-known, intricate, very complex and specific intertwinings of the physical and spiritual aspects of health.

HP Mageson, I can see what you mean. My grandmother (one of the only 2 obese or overweight people in my family, ironically) has been following the Atkins diet for years, and has all of his books. She has successfully maintained a slim 350 pounds. Sadly, she sticks to it.

Centralforce, you mentioned that diets need to be tailored to individuals and their specific needs. I completely agree. My cousin (the 2nd obese person I mentioned) can be on the keto diet and workout with me daily while I am on balanced diet but low in animal meat and fat and he ends up not losing any weight while I am fit and getting quite muscular ... Sadly the only thing he loses is happiness and ends up depressed and starts binge eating after many months of the diet and working out. But then he sees his coworker supposedly getting results from the keto diet (though he does more starving and not eating than keto) It sucks I feel bad for my cousin.

Stormblood, you said no matter how active someone is that if they eat any unhealthy foods They will retain excess body fat. I don't know where you get the science or your experience to back this claim up but when my younger brother can eat 5 lb bags of sour patch kids and follow irregular workout and sleep routine while eating Crap and STILL weigh less than me with virtually no body fat... It makes your claim hard to believe honestly. Though I will say it is nasty and sad the diet he follows and will probably catch up with him.

Stormblood I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else but I use to respect you and look up to you back in the day. I still respect you as a brother, and I would want my brother to let me know if I was coming off so abrasive. So brother to brother is where this is all coming from know I truly mean that. I don't think I'm the only person who notices this. I was just shocked that right after HP HC commended CF, you began disrespecting him.

I agree with you on many things however, such as yoga routines and benefits of Falun Gong, as well as sleep affecting body weight. I just don't know if you realize how you come off. I agree that we need more hands on research without the Jewish hand involved, in order to learn more for sure. I find your hypothesis of blood clogging arteries very interesting. I've always held that bad cholesterol clogs arteries, but I will be doing more research to at least double check or even learn something new on this.

Centralforce, thank you for the contrasting viewpoints on carbs. This has given me much to consider personally for my own diet

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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby T.A.O.L. » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:01 pm

I hope you all remember that it is mercury retrograde still...

But what I wanted to add is, that perhaps some people start on a keto diet and never having added even any form of proper fats in there before.
When I added proper fats to my diet I gained concentration and was able to make better decisions in the now. I notice it when I don't get any of that.

If glucose is also burned by your braincells, then there would not be a fog in your head, perhaps, only the acceleration of thoughts.
In which case, one may need to moderate their intake of information from the surroundings in any form or practice more void meditation.

Anyway that is just my thought on this.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:32 pm

TheFlea wrote:Stormblood what's up with you man?

I'm wondering the same about you, given the answer your comments.

TheFlea wrote:You addressed the topic to Centralforce and asked his input, but then began arguing with him and belittling his viewpoints? My child does that, and I admittedly but successfully catch and stop myself from doing that as well from time to time I guess. It's just surprising to see on here.

Except it seems your selective memory (everyone has that) hasn't managed to pick up the gist of what happened in the conversation.
It's obvious that if someone puts words in my mouth as early as the first answer, I'm going to call bullshit. In my third point in the original post, I've talked about the fact that excess carbohydrates strain the liver and somehow right in the first answer the "excess" part was already gone. Then all discussion was a rush from his side to promote the benefit of carbohydrates and attack fats. This while assuming all the time that I was trying to promote excessive fats, which I didn't at any point. Or that I was trying to push starving, which I didn't at any point. All this while contradicting himself in more than one point. Then when this was made noticeable, suddenly he is the victim (conclusion of his last post) and you come to his rescue. Very interesting indeed.

Nevertheless, the conclusions on carbohydrates were drawn and it seemed we also agreed on some things, that I highlighted in the post before that.

I very much respect the immense contribution he gives for what concerns health but that doesn't justify this kind of behaviour nor yours. I don't take this kind of shit from anyone any longer, regardless of reputation.

TheFlea wrote:You even seemed to take problem with HP Don's advice on the Atkins diet (which nearly killed my aunt btw). It seems the only people you don't argue with or automatically dispute are the sisters, such as HPS Shannon, Johnson Akemi or especially Lydia. I hope I'm not out of line saying this but every time I see you interact with them, I can't help but think of my cousin who will agree only with the female co-workers, because he hopes they will shower him with some kind of praise or approval of some kind, or a few he secretly has a thing for.


I didn't take any problem with HP Don's answer on Atkins diet, which I never tried nor checked. Aside from the fact that there was a misconception there as Atkins does not equal keto. Keto is like a set and Atkins is an element of that set, which means that Atkins is a ketogenic diet but Ketogenic is something broad like a category so it doesn't equal Atkins. I explained also that there is evidence that people in glacial climates eat more fats than anything else. Guess where you are going to find carbohydrates in the Arctic circle? Nowhere.

Just because I'm talking to your idols, that doesn't mean I have to be all "Yes, sir" every time they write something nor that I have to sugar-coat my words. This is not a Church and they are not Xian priests.

With Lydia, Johnson Akemi and HPS Shannon there is another kind of bond. Less so with Johnson Akemi. I also find it easier to talk with women than men and that is not a crime. In the old forums, there was once I disagreed with Johnson Akemi. Either you missed it or you weren't part of that yet. There has also been some tension with Lydia in a couple of private conversations but that doesn't mean that we want to slit each other's throat and that's not the case here either. Disagreements strengthen bonds. HPS Shannon didn't come here assuming things or putting words in my mouth. She was very rational as well. Lydia is my astrologer and she surely knows me better than most people.

TheFlea wrote:Being around for a long while and on the different forums, to me it seems like long-time SS, once they reach a certain level of advancement or activity on the forums or gain a following, start to become combative, arrogant and argumentative.

That in my case doesn't depend on advancement or activity. I'm this way. All my relationships start in an aggressive manner, then they change. Just ask Shael, to name one person. This has to do with my numerology and, especially, the letter which my name starts with, which I'm not going to tell here, of course.

TheFlea wrote:I'm getting off topic I'm sorry. Its just it would be a shame if Centralforce ever got worn down or tired of the attitude he encounters and decided to slow or even stop the help he gives the many people that HP Hoodedcobra mentioned who truly appreciate and greatly need his help. Considering I don't see many members who are as well versed in Chinese medicine or the lesser-known, intricate, very complex and specific intertwinings of the physical and spiritual aspects of health.

I may be speaking out of turn but Centralforce doesn't seem like the type to stop contributing because of some disagreement. Of course, he's free to correct me if that's not the case.

TheFlea wrote:Stormblood, you said no matter how active someone is that if they eat any unhealthy foods They will retain excess body fat. I don't know where you get the science or your experience to back this claim up but when my younger brother can eat 5 lb bags of sour patch kids and follow irregular workout and sleep routine while eating Crap and STILL weigh less than me with virtually no body fat... It makes your claim hard to believe honestly. Though I will say it is nasty and sad the diet he follows and will probably catch up with him.

Unhealthy damages the body. If you eat too many refined sugars like sweets, the body has to pull all kinds of vitamins and minerals from the rest of the body to be able to digest them and the same happens with modern bread, pasta and pizza coming from white-wheat, which is hyper-refined as well. The part about processed sugars was in one of HP Maxine's posts if I remember correctly. But going back to fat, you should know that it does not only manifests above muscles in plain, it is also present below them. You could say I have about 9-10% body fat if you looked at me that I have almost the silhouette of a model now, but a bioelectrical impedance analysis, which is the most accurate way of measuring body composition and is used by militaries as well, reveals that I actually have 17 point something % of body fat. I don't doubt your words. What you described could happen in the case your younger brother has an ectomorph/vata body build, which is characterised by lots of nervous energy and a very fast metabolism. Those are people for which is almost impossible to gain fat and is very difficult to put on muscles as well. Given the right diet and the right training system (which isn't cross-fit, weight-lifting or gym machines) he might manage to get on decent muscles. That takes discipline, which seems your brother doesn't have in this area of his life, or he wouldn't binge-eat.

TheFlea wrote:Stormblood I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else but I use to respect you and look up to you back in the day. I still respect you as a brother, and I would want my brother to let me know if I was coming off so abrasive. So brother to brother is where this is all coming from know I truly mean that. I don't think I'm the only person who notices this.

You didn't offend me. Honestly speaking, I just think you miscalculated. Thank you. I care for every person in this community. If I didn't, I would just ignore you all the time, instead of answering to people who ask questions and getting into arguments with people whom I think are saying nonsense.

TheFlea wrote:I agree with you on many things however, such as yoga routines and benefits of Falun Gong, as well as sleep affecting body weight. I just don't know if you realize how you come off. I agree that we need more hands on research without the Jewish hand involved, in order to learn more for sure. I find your hypothesis of blood clogging arteries very interesting. I've always held that bad cholesterol clogs arteries, but I will be doing more research to at least double check or even learn something new on this.

I'm aware of how I come off but a reminder never hurts and is always appreciated. All my social relationships start in an aggressive way, then they evolve. What you see with Lydia is just because we are at a different point in our relationship but that doesn't mean we can't get into an argument or that we never do. Yes, do your research: I don't expect people to accept everything is said without supporting it with personal research.
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Aquarius » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:43 pm

I'm aware of how I come off but a reminder never hurts and is always appreciated. All my social relationships start in an aggressive way, then they evolve. What you see with Lydia is just because we are at a different point in our relationship but that doesn't mean we can't get into an argument or that we never do. Yes, do your research: I don't expect people to accept everything is said without supporting it with personal research.

i must disagree, you never were aggressive with me. :P
Quando la Dea delle sventure mi abbracciò e spesso minacciò di schiacciarmi, la volontà di resistere crebbe, e infine quella volontà fu vittoriosa.

When the Goddess of trouble embraced me and often threatened to crush me, the will to resist grew, and at last that will was victorious.

Adolf Hitler

TheFlea
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby TheFlea » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:03 pm

Well I appreciate your reply, and admire the passion you bring to the forums.

I was also given a chart reading by Lydia and HP HC and was told I had some issues myself that I should work on, which I have been. All of us can have problems in our charts. But do we all work on these issues, or just brag about them making us unique? After all, continued improvement is what what SS is all about, no?

I'm sorry to hear about your strained relationship, though perhaps it may partly relate to what was mentioned on how you come off to people. Good thing for you is the people who stick around after intense beginnings of relationships with you might be extremely patient and caring people who will put up with you. True friends. But that's just my opinion, nothing else. And it's not my place to judge your relationships any further.

You say I miscalculated, I disagree: I still feel you are excessively abrasive and arrogant, too prideful to admit or work on shortcomings you do possess, and, near as I can gather, not somebody I would consider my buddy outside of our common goal. But you are you, and I get that. And I respect you as one of us. Anyone who fights by my side in this war has my admiration and support.

I feel Centralforce was merely attempting to show another side to the same coin of health, and wasn't giving you any "shit" as you say. It was blown way out of proportion, from my analysis.

And I never said you had to call anyone "Sir," that is kind of putting words in my mouth like you claimed others did to you. I just was surprised you were talking to him this way, considering it was mostly misunderstanding and possibly even communication breakdown.

Perhaps it's just differences in how we were raised. I was always encouraged to respect those who earn respect. Whether this is calling them "Sir" or "Ma'am" or just treating them kindly or with dignity, keeping in mind their contributions to society or causes. I would say Centralforce has earned our respect... And if people are "coming to his rescue" then perhaps it's for a reason. Personally I would have told him that he misunderstood you, and then respectfully told him thanks for his input but that you disagree or are trying your own research. But hey, maybe I am too nice sometimes, which can also be a problem

That's the thing about being so rough around the edges and overly reactive, it gets other people on the defensive and bringing the attitude back to you. Especially when you are dealing with their hard work and pride like CF's knowledge of health

They aren't my "idols" and you don't have to call them "Sir" or fall down in worship to their greatness, so free yourself from the clutches of exaggeration, my fellow. Its funny you reminded me of myself for a second there with your wording (how I write arguments at times). But I do feel they have done much for this community and some people could show a little more recognition. Especially since the clergy is chosen in place by Satan and the demons themselves.

Being prideful is one thing and to be commended but I see some mentioned non-clergy members with heads and egos too big to fit through the front door, considering themselves the is all end all of SS and having closed minds towards others or their beliefs/experiences, kind of making their own up off of "intuition" or emotions. I wonder if the gods act the same way.. The clergy doesn't. This probably isn't necessarily you I don't think

Honestly if you helped as many as CF and were as versed in herbal/spiritual medicine as he and someone did the same to you that you did him, I would have your back, SB... Or even if someone attacked you currently over meditation practices that I knew you had experience with, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. And no offense, you are DEFINITELY not my idol lol so it has nothing to do with that.

I do remember the one time you disagreed with her, if memory serves me correctly she was actually in the right. Something about the way a rune should be facing when visualizing it in the soul? (maybe someone else, idk) Maybe you just don't like being questioned or even actually being wrong. And it may not have to do with women in particular? To each their own. Though I guess I was correct in my assessment that you feel differently towards women, which is cool either way. At least i know I'm not crazy now lol

I myself also find it easier to deal with women on a daily basis, finding men to be more confrontational and argumentative at times. Sometimes even infuriating. This is something I work on... Hopefully if this is where you feelings are coming from, then you are working on the underneath problems contributing to this as well

I guess it's just that for every person very active and well known in the community, there are many more who area not in the forums as much really but who follow along and see things. People deal with arrogance and bad attitudes in the Jewish world daily, it would be nice to have relief on the forums instead of more of the same. But I am human as well as all of you and have my own shortcomings, perhaps not become so inflamed over what may be small matters I admit

To be honest, I will read your replies if you choose to post them, but I won't reply to them; I have taken away from your original topic too much already And do not wish to detract from the good information in your topic. Thank you for your reply brother

Centralforce666
Posts: 294

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Centralforce666 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:14 pm

I'd like to just point out that my responses on this thread were not only to you, but also to the keto community in general.

Most of them promote fasting or include it in part of their regime.

And/or the ketosis mechanism is to 'induce fasting conditions' without fasting.

Excessively eating any food puts strain on the liver, as it has a part to play in all food types with the exception of fibre.

Hence why I ignored the excess assertion because, in many peoples books who promote keto, anything over and above 20-60 grams of carbs per day is considered excessive regardless of physical activity levels which is plain untrue and not providing enough consideration to the individual to be of any universal value.

I'd also like to add that there is a lot of personal attacks in your arguments which are unnecessary. Remove these and your replies are fine but don't take a rebuttal to your arguments as a personal attack and then make it about people's agendas, just because they have a strong argument.

This is a needless waste of energy and doesn't actually achieve much at all. Also... Playing the victim? Really?

You must have me confused with someone else.. I am no persons victim, lest yours.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

If you want a peaceful life, prepare for war

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Lydia
Posts: 1008
Location: Satan's Earth
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Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Lydia » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:06 am

TheFlea wrote:Some even try to post sermons of theirs as well as if they were clergy, because they were "intuitively" led And spoken to...


If this is directed to me, this is actually why I don't post anymore, except for reminders of important dates or workings that can be done. There have been dozens and dozens of SS over the years assuming I'm clergy or trying to become clergy. To make an official statement, I do not want to be clergy. I am too realistic and I know what is involved, and it is not for me. I can do what I do and help the Gods without having any sort of title.

All you get by being clergy, is a title and delusional people making youtube videos of you. Lol.

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AscendingSun
Posts: 95

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:52 am

Stormblood wrote:
TheFlea wrote:Stormblood what's up with you man?

I'm wondering the same about you, given the answer your comments.

[quote="TheFlea"]

#Stormblooddidnothingwrong

Eric13
Posts: 481

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Eric13 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:41 pm

:geek:
Lydia wrote:this is actually why I don't post anymore,


This makes me sad. You know you never want to look at yourself through other people‘s eyes because everyone sees you different, but this is good because it actually gives you the freedom to just do as you please no matter what. The only opinions that matter are those from your supporters not your critics. Criticism only matters if it’s constructive. Guilting you to not make helpful posts is not constructive. You’re an excellent writer with incredible insight and perspective. Your posts are tremendously missed. I wish you wouldn’t let others affect you like that. If people are giving you shit about this just tell them to fuck off. You’re trying to help them anyway.

Actually don’t worry about it, I’ll defend your honor. Anyone harassing Lydia fuck off. Seriously fuck off, we really don’t need one of the best we got being suppressed because others have hang ups.

Bottom line, HP’s aren’t the only one’s allowed to write informative posts. In fact, just out of spite I think I might write a bunch of practical useful informative and helpful posts. Just to grind peoples gears. So look out.

We’re here to empower each other and nothing less.

TheFlea
Posts: 94

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby TheFlea » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:27 am

AscendingSun wrote:#Stormblooddidnothingwrong


I don't even know how to use Twitter or hash tags to be honest, so I don't know why but that hash tag made me laugh so hard for a few seconds. And it didn't even have to do with the discussion of what you said, just saw the long hashtag and started laughing. Sorry lol. Think I need some sleep.

I do value his dedication and passion, and the hard work he puts in with us with the warfare. Well, I value this in all of you, really. Though I know we wont all be the best of buddies, or even fully compatible people and that we may disagree at times. Maybe just how dedicated and full of pride we may be. I want that to be known, since I don't get on much.

Lydia wrote:...


I wasn't specifically referring to you, no. Honestly just in general (k&q type people..) and it was really one half me having a rough few weeks and one half built up irritations with what I mentioned, that I could honestly find more constructive ways to let out. I may have lost my cool a little bit anyway guys and gals 8-)

And I agree, I certainly wouldn't want to be one of them...

HP Mageson666
Posts: 2431

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HP Mageson666 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:09 am

You should still put up articles they were always good. There is no need to make some moral statement by not doing such.

Lydia wrote:
TheFlea wrote:Some even try to post sermons of theirs as well as if they were clergy, because they were "intuitively" led And spoken to...


If this is directed to me, this is actually why I don't post anymore, except for reminders of important dates or workings that can be done. There have been dozens and dozens of SS over the years assuming I'm clergy or trying to become clergy. To make an official statement, I do not want to be clergy. I am too realistic and I know what is involved, and it is not for me. I can do what I do and help the Gods without having any sort of title.

All you get by being clergy, is a title and delusional people making youtube videos of you. Lol.

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Stormblood
Posts: 2356
Location: Academy of the Dragon, Dinas Ffaraon

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby Stormblood » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:47 am

Lydia wrote:this is actually why I don't post anymore,

I'd love to see some post of yours again...
Quotes | Final RTR | Useful spells, meds and reads

All links updated and running.

HP Mageson666
Posts: 2431

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby HP Mageson666 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:19 am

Lydia wrote:[ To make an official statement, I do not want to be clergy. I am too realistic and I know what is involved, and it is not for me. I can do what I do and help the Gods without having any sort of title.


No life........But...

Image

WInz

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AscendingSun
Posts: 95

Re: About Carbohydrates - to HPS Shannon and Centralforce

Postby AscendingSun » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:03 am

TheFlea wrote:
AscendingSun wrote:#Stormblooddidnothingwrong


I don't even know how to use Twitter or hash tags to be honest, so I don't know why but that hash tag made me laugh so hard for a few seconds. And it didn't even have to do with the discussion of what you said, just saw the long hashtag and started laughing. Sorry lol. Think I need some sleep.


:^)


Centralforce666 wrote:
Stormblood wrote:


Tired: Keto, Atkins, Low Carb

Wired: https://youtu.be/weRKlBGszhY


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