Obliterating My Saturn [help]

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Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Harry » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:38 am

That's from a popular astrology app from the app store it uses a House system called Porphyry.

It says:-
Saturn in Cancer wrote:The other social planet, Saturn rules responsibility, restrictions, limits, boundaries, fears and self discipline. Your Saturn is in Cancer, meaning you struggle with emotions, a taste for drama, and an overabundance of empathy.

It's in your tenth house meaning you have had difficulties with career, goals, success and responsibility.


And my chart ruler is Mercury(Virgo).
Neptune is in Aquarius and 5th house
Pluto is in Sagittarius and 4th house
Mars is in Pisces and 6th house
Saturn is in Cancer and 10th house

I wrote above all the planets which Lydia said can be problematic but i think that that only Saturn which needs work.

Now i want to know if this is damning or worrying? and Which one of should i Obliterate first? and what affirmation should i use?

And I'm going to follow the Instructions from Lydia on How To Obliterate Your Saturn
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92

Thanks in advance :)
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Stormblood
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Stormblood » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:20 am

The only house system you should be using is Placidus and not one made-up system we know nothing about and that has a name related to the king of the Gigantes, and thus representative of the chaotic, destructive aspect of nature.
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94n
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby 94n » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:11 pm

Stormblood wrote:The only house system you should be using is Placidus and not one made-up system we know nothing about and that has a name related to the king of the Gigantes, and thus representative of the chaotic, destructive aspect of nature.


I write respectfully and kindly in addressing your post, to explore the topic further.

Quote from Mageson:
"
The Neoplatonist philosopher Porphyry stated the celebrations that with done on the festival of Saturnalia where about the "freeing of souls into immortality". This is done by the Magnum Opus. Saturnalia is based on Liberation and dissolution of the Magnum Opus its based on the sun entering Capricorn:"


HP Mageson writes about Porphyry here too: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21151
HP Hoodedcobra mentions him briefly here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3103

Porphyry (name meaning "purple clad") is very well known neoplatonist philosopher. His teacher was Plotinus, one of the most influential Hellenistic philosophers of his time. Chances are if it was a topic in the ancient world, he already had writings on it. He was also a hardcore pagan and wrote a series of works against christianity (which were banned by the church).

The name we all know him by (Porphyry) came from one of his teachers, Cassius Longinus of Athens, because it's most likely a reference to purple dyes due to his Phoenician heritage. Porphyry was a common name in Tyre, where he came from (the city of purple). This is one of the city's well known exports, which is both rare and difficult to produce. His given name was name "Malchus" which meant king in semitic languages. (we'll leave that name Malchus up for debate, due to his Phoenician heritage).

You can read more about Porphyry here.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/porphyry/

His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.


As for the ancient Giant (from theoi):
Porphyrion could mean "Surging" from the Greek word porphyreôs, a term applied to both the surge of battle and the sea; or "Gleaming Darkly" from the word porphyrô; or else "Purple-Coot" from porphyriôn. Also "purple one."
There may be a relation, but the meaning is just the color purple.
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Stormblood
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Stormblood » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:00 pm

94n wrote:His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.


I quoted only the relevant part, because the rest has nothing to do with it. It's wrong to divide the houses into equal parts. How do you account for intercepted signs this way? You can't. There's a reason each house has a different size too and it relates to the importance of that house in one's life, as do other factors. Placidus is more accurate in this.

Feel free to explain why an equal-size house system is valid and whether you would say it's more accurate or not. I'll also quote Lydia and Hooded Cobra here, so they can share their knowledge and experience, if they wish to do it.

Lydia wrote:...

HP. Hoodedcobra666 wrote:666
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94n
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby 94n » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:20 pm

Stormblood wrote:
94n wrote:His house system is finding the quadrants of the chart, and dividing it by three equal parts. It's one of the oldest system of a quadrant house division. If we have no astro.com, then it would probably be easier to calculate by hand. They worked with what they have.


I quoted only the relevant part, because the rest has nothing to do with it. It's wrong to divide the houses into equal parts. How do you account for intercepted signs this way? You can't. There's a reason each house has a different size too and it relates to the importance of that house in one's life, as do other factors. Placidus is more accurate in this.

Feel free to explain why an equal-size house system is valid and whether you would say it's more accurate or not. I'll also quote Lydia and Hooded Cobra here, so they can share their knowledge and experience, if they wish to do it.

Lydia wrote:...

HP. Hoodedcobra666 wrote:666


Stormblood,

Why do you think it's irrelevant? You brought up his name and accused his name as destructive, so of course it's relevant to the discussion. While his works may have been altered and destroyed, he was still an influential figure in naturalist philosophy. All I wanted was to be more careful, rather than to accidentally disparage someone from the past who may have done good work.

The superiority or inferiority of house systems (such as placidus or porphyry) wasn't the point I wanted to make, but that many ancient societies, cultures, and their intelligentsia, practiced astrology that fit their viewpoint and the way they conceptualized the universe. I don't use Porphyry houses, but astrologers at the time certainly did, and they certainly wouldn't have had patronage if their technique was ineffective.

To say they were wrong, and to say that the astrology that is commonly practiced on this forum is the only correct way, I find to be short sighted and close minded. Are you going to tell me that the Greek scholars who had access to the Library of Alexandria were wrong and ineffective because they used the whole sign system? Or the Greek Mystery Schools that commonly pushed astrological information out were wrong because it wasn't placidus? Let people explore what works for them and what doesn't, rather than shutting them down.

Hear me out. There's more than one way to practice astrology.
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Stormblood » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:55 pm

94n wrote:Stormblood,

Why do you think it's irrelevant? You brought up his name and accused his name as destructive, so of course it's relevant to the discussion. While his works may have been altered and destroyed, he was still an influential figure in naturalist philosophy. All I wanted was to be more careful, rather than to accidentally disparage someone from the past who may have done good work.


Because we're talking about astrology, but you always want to point to history of astrology, specifically to times in history well after the Golden Ages of knowledge. Also, if you really want to talk about Porphiry, a name affects the individual. We know that Gigantes and Titans in Greco-Roman mythology, just like giants from Norse mythology, represent the heavy, chaotic elements in the soul that are purged during the Magnum Opus.


94n wrote:The superiority or inferiority of house systems (such as placidus or porphyry) wasn't the point I wanted to make, but that many ancient societies, cultures, and their intelligentsia, practiced astrology that fit their viewpoint and the way they conceptualized the universe. I don't use Porphyry houses, but astrologers at the time certainly did, and they certainly wouldn't have had patronage if their technique was ineffective. To say they were wrong, and to say that the astrology that is commonly practiced on this forum is the only correct way, I find to be short sighted and close minded.


Any actual evidence of them using an efficient system or is it just "I read a book and I think it was efficient". The fact I told you about the impossibility to calculate intercepted signs, houses and planets is already significant evidence against your thesis. Instead of making ethical/moral/rhetorical arguments in order to support Porphyry like holohoax-enforcers do in order to protect the holohoax narrative, try to post actual empirical data that equal-house systems work. If you don't, you won't be proving anything in favour of Porphyry.


94n wrote:Are you going to tell me that the Greek scholars who had access to the Library of Alexandria were wrong and ineffective because they used the whole sign system? Or the Greek Mystery Schools that commonly pushed astrological information out were wrong because it wasn't placidus? Let people explore what works for them and what doesn't, rather than shutting them down.


If you want to look at someone who was closest to Golden Age knowledge, look to Pythagoras.

94n wrote:Hear me out. There's more than one way to practice astrology.


You sometimes post good information for newbies to learn astrology. Try not to lean too much on the pitfall of Jewish-approved narrative for astrology. There are many New Age and Jewish so-called astrologers who do nothing but feed disinformation to the masses for heavy prices both from completely fantasy-like readings and from books.
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94n
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby 94n » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:33 pm

Stormblood,

Stormblood wrote:
Any actual evidence of them using an efficient system or is it just "I read a book and I think it was efficient". The fact I told you about the impossibility to calculate intercepted signs, houses and planets is already significant evidence against your thesis. Instead of making ethical/moral/rhetorical arguments in order to support Porphyry like holohoax-enforcers do in order to protect the holohoax narrative, try to post actual empirical data that equal-house systems work. If you don't, you won't be proving anything in favour of Porphyry.

You sometimes post good information for newbies to learn astrology. Try not to lean too much on the pitfall of Jewish-approved narrative for astrology. There are many New Age and Jewish so-called astrologers who do nothing but feed disinformation to the masses for heavy prices both from completely fantasy-like readings and from books.


I'm confident in the information appraisal process people have on this forum, because we all underwent primary education and readings from the website to help guide us on how to read sources and take information out from it. If I find a source to be dubious I preface it. No need to be condescending and impose that view onto me, or accuse me of using holocaust supporter tactics. We can go through a discussion without insulting each other, right?

The sources I read and utilize are primary sources and how it was practiced thousands of years ago by gentile civilizations, or secondary sources that utilizes such sources ♥.

Stormblood wrote:Any actual evidence of them using an efficient system or is it just "I read a book and I think it was efficient". The fact I told you about the impossibility to calculate intercepted signs, houses and planets is already significant evidence against your thesis. Instead of making ethical/moral/rhetorical arguments in order to support Porphyry like holohoax-enforcers do in order to protect the holohoax narrative, try to post actual empirical data that equal-house systems work. If you don't, you won't be proving anything in favour of Porphyry.


If you find intercepted to work for you, then good for you. But these are your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And it's OK to let people form their own opinions by experimenting with what works for them and what doesn't. People can use what mantras they want from the civilization they want, and so they will.

And morals and ethics are important. Maxine prefaces how ethics are important in Astrology. Without morals/ethics we have no value or structure to help guide our lives.

__________
And I'm confused as to why you refer to people or ideas from several thousand years ago as new age. The new age movement happened less than a century ago. I don't think dates are too relevant, because this forum discussion obviously is happening in 2020, way past Pythagoras, yet we still use astrology, etc. What matters are the quality of the sources, what we get from it, and the time period helps us understand the context.

Say, in the year 3000 certainly I'd like to see JoS preserved and the name of HPS Maxine being an influential figure of Satanism despite the year being 2020 past the golden ages, etc. I wouldn't dismiss what people have to say simply because of the dates.

The name is just referring to the color purple to make royal dyes--it's not a grand conspiracy in my opinion--but your mind is set to it so there's no need to reiterate it.

All I wanted to say is that it's ok to let people explore things. If people don't explore things, read the literature and try things out for themselves, they'll never know more and will never become self reliant.
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Stormblood
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Stormblood » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:15 am

So, again, you have no real argument to make and zero experience with the alleged efficacy of said system. Case closed.

In case you feel like casting more doubt, here's the JoS talking about intercepted signs and planets:

How to Read an Astrology Chart - by High Priestess Maxine wrote:Intercepted signs and planets are weaker. (...)

There can be more than one ascending sign, in the case of an intercepted sign in the first house. The planet/s that rule the intercepted sign are co-ruler/s. (...)

IS THE RULER INTERCEPTED OR RETROGRADE?
If the ruler is intercepted or retrograde, the latter half of the life will be better than the early years. A retrograde ruler and indicates a so-called "late bloomer," especially if more than two planets are retrograde. Many planets, even if the ruler/s is direct, when retrograde indicate the above as well. (...)


Source: https://www.satanisgod.org/www.angelfir ... ology.html
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby Lydia » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:31 pm

94n wrote:If you find intercepted to work for you, then good for you. But these are your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


Opinions do not matter. I've had disagreements with people based on their opinions, I always go by what I see and what is tried and tested and true.

If someone has an intercepted sign in their 1st house, the planet ruling that sign is very much their ruler. You see this in their physical appearance, and their personality, view of the world, etc. People look and act like their AC sign/s, including what is intercepted. Equal house system, just doesn't work. This is not just my "opinion".
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94n
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby 94n » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:07 am

Lydia wrote:
94n wrote:If you find intercepted to work for you, then good for you. But these are your opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


Opinions do not matter. I've had disagreements with people based on their opinions, I always go by what I see and what is tried and tested and true.

If someone has an intercepted sign in their 1st house, the planet ruling that sign is very much their ruler. You see this in their physical appearance, and their personality, view of the world, etc. People look and act like their AC sign/s, including what is intercepted. Equal house system, just doesn't work. This is not just my "opinion".



Lydia,

Keep in mind, your word is "i." What you feel is tried and true, and what works for you. Your opinion matters.

I have talked to many professional astrologers before and have gathered opinions, and usually they think their own system of interpretation is superior than anyone else. They're free to think so.

I find that many view these things as tools as a means for interpretations. If a tool doesn't work for you, then it won't. If a tool works well for you, then good. In astrology there's plenty of these tools you can use in your arsenal.

For example, the definition of a chart ruler changes throughout the ages or whoever you are talking to or whatever they practice.

But using it to shut down discussions is counterproductive, as most astrological ideas come from discussion, practice, and the transmission of ideas.
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94n
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Re: Obliterating My Saturn [help]

Postby 94n » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:10 am

Stormblood wrote:So, again, you have no real argument to make and zero experience with the alleged efficacy of said system. Case closed.

In case you feel like casting more doubt, here's the JoS talking about intercepted signs and planets:

How to Read an Astrology Chart - by High Priestess Maxine wrote:Intercepted signs and planets are weaker. (...)

There can be more than one ascending sign, in the case of an intercepted sign in the first house. The planet/s that rule the intercepted sign are co-ruler/s. (...)

IS THE RULER INTERCEPTED OR RETROGRADE?
If the ruler is intercepted or retrograde, the latter half of the life will be better than the early years. A retrograde ruler and indicates a so-called "late bloomer," especially if more than two planets are retrograde. Many planets, even if the ruler/s is direct, when retrograde indicate the above as well. (...)


Source: https://www.satanisgod.org/www.angelfir ... ology.html


Good for her, she is a credible and talented astrologer who has years of experience.

I hope you find much success in your astrological endeavors. I am certain you're well on your way with your preferred house system.
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