Against Pantheism & Thesis on Consciousness

[Elite]

I hate anti-life teachings.


There is a strange god model that thinks to "know" itself or whatever baby need he has. I say this is "baby need" because what these fake spiritualists rationalize is this: a baby in god's clothes. He only thinks, experiences, materializes, senses. Similar? Yes, the gods damn 1st-4th house spectrum.

No introspective or whatever. Whatever is the reason this pantheistic god had made the universe, I will tell you, it's drivel. Utter nonsense. Reasons:


1- If this being is aiming for self-knowledge and that's why we were created, why can we have domination over it? People usually address Aristotle's allegoric teachings about this "Hermetic", "Aristotelian" or whatever god. But Aristotle also quotes Orphics, saying Zeus is ruling over everything.

If this "everything" is consisting of whatever thing this baby produces, then this means Zeus also causes to change it, or simply, everyone with magick ability can do this. Why do we have access to that process? It's like you are in deep contemplation, but a consciousness you created within yourself now takes over the process and now rules according to his own will.

Which one is more sensible? That Zeus is a self-advanced being within universe and rightfully and wisely rules it, or baby boy just plays within his own mind, charging his lesser conscious fragments to rule over his mind?


2- If experience and self-knowledge is the goal, why do humans react collectively to certain events, or why do animals follow the same patterns and are indistinguishable from each other? For example, why do beings with such high consciousness have 2 legs and 2 arms? Shouldn't be there more diversity? Why there is no 300 IQ super advanced civilization of moth-like beings? Patterns, patterns, patterns...

This leads us to conclusion that there are laws (and yes, even these modern spiritualists cannot deny it but GAAAAWWWDDDDDDDD, yeaaaahhhhhh, I will suicideeeee. ). So the point is not much of a diversity and knowing, experiencing, huh? This is what two digits do to poor human brains...


3- If humans are capable of introspection, why can't this being do it and instead assigns this task to us? Our experience cannot be compared to this God's own experience because we are not even in the same league. Big baby boy needs you, goy. Oyy veeyyy, I will suicide.


4- Why does this being need time? He could have experienced and finished everything instantly, since it's able to create so many consciousnesses and rule each of them at once. Why he can't experience everything at once at his own whole being, let's say even if he can't do this, still he could have done that very quick.


5- If the goal is sensation, consciousness and experience, what is the role of the matter? Why are there trillions of grains of sand and planets and radiation belts around the universe which not even grass will grow around it? This multiplicity must be just crap to him.


Thankfully, since I have three digit IQ, I made some research about true consciousness. Now, I may be wrong or correct about my conclusions on the matter, but I am sure it will still be more closer to truth than this drivel.


The Ancient Greek verb for "to be conscious of" is "σύνοιδα" which also is the root for the word for "consciousness". This verb has following meanings:

1.to share in knowledge of, be privy to
2. to be conscious of, be cognizant of

This, in my own understanding, points to the mysteries of universe. As it could be seen from this instance, one discovers the secrets and partakes in the universe's mysteries, so it's a fully conscious being. It's not a baby boy hits his head at full speed to the wall and understands this is bad. We are the conscious end (living beings), not the universe.

As far as cosmic consciousness, I do not know what this means, I can contemplate on it but the output might also fall into the fantasy category just as this pantheistic drivel falls deep into. Therefore, I believe a shut mouth is better in this case. Yet, still, I can say for sure, it's not a big baby boy.

 

[SatAnon]

It's important to understand the belief system you're attacking first, because most of your "reasons" you said are strawmans. Pantheism doesn't state that there's a God with a separate consciousness like Yahweh as the jews/Christians describe that controls the world, but instead "God" is the world and everything has divine consciousness.

I'll play the devil's advocate and explain this further by answering what you said:

1- If this being is aiming for self-knowledge and that's why we were created, why can we have domination over it? People usually address Aristotle's allegoric teachings about this "Hermetic", "Aristotelian" or whatever god. But Aristotle also quotes Orphics, saying Zeus is ruling over everything.

Because there's no "we" and "it". According to pantheism, both us and everything in nature is "god", so it's all just god experiencing itself, and not someone else dominating it.

2- If experience and self-knowledge is the goal, why do humans react collectively to certain events, or why do animals follow the same patterns and are indistinguishable from each other? For example, why do beings with such high consciousness have 2 legs and 2 arms? Shouldn't be there more diversity? Why there is no 300 IQ super advanced civilization of moth-like beings? Patterns, patterns, patterns...

Why do you think experience and self-knowledge conflicts with following paterns? And why do you think that this "300 IQ super advanced civilization of moth-like beings" may not exist on a planet far away? You know that earth is not the only planet with intelligent beings, right?

3- If humans are capable of introspection, why can't this being do it and instead assigns this task to us? Our experience cannot be compared to this God's own experience because we are not even in the same league. Big baby boy needs you, goy. Oyy veeyyy, I will suicide.

Because as I said, the being is not separate from us. We are that being and everything is that being. In Pantheism, "god" is not separate from the world and from humans, but it's all of us and everything.

4- Why does this being need time? He could have experienced and finished everything instantly, since it's able to create so many consciousnesses and rule each of them at once. Why he can't experience everything at once at his own whole being, let's say even if he can't do this, still he could have done that very quick.

It doesn't need time. Time only has meaning in a planet where it revolves around the sun and itself, and you measure days and years this way. From the viewpoint of the universe, it's all as it is. You can't measure days and time in outer space.

Again refer back to my first paragraph, as I said that according to pantheism "god" isn't an external being who plans the world, it just manifests as the universe and experiences itself. It's not separate from it.

5- If the goal is sensation, consciousness and experience, what is the role of the matter? Why are there trillions of grains of sand and planets and radiation belts around the universe which not even grass will grow around it? This multiplicity must be just crap to him.

Because you can't have sensation, consciousness and experience without matter. You need something to experience, and that's matter. Also, what makes you think that planets are just rocks with no consciousness? In pantheism, everything is divine, including the rocks. Pantheists don't see the rocks as inert matter with no life.

 

[Elite]

It's important to understand the belief system you're attacking first, because most of your "reasons" you said are strawmans. Pantheism doesn't state that there's a God with a separate consciousness like Yahweh as the jews/Christians describe that controls the world, but instead "God" is the world and everything has divine consciousness.

I'll play the devil's advocate and explain this further by answering what you said:

I know the definition.

Because there's no "we" and "it". According to pantheism, both us and everything in nature is "god", so it's all just god experiencing itself, and not someone else dominating it.

What I mean is that there is a separate fragment of consciousness, separated from other pieces and vested there to rule. Even if what you say is true, what is the point of giving the authority to a fragment? Further, one can see not everything in the universe is in accordance with Zeus's will, both in mythology and in SS perspective or whatever perspective one may look from. If you give authority to something, it means you want its will to happen, therefore it means you must discard other things since you decided a fragment's will to rule, but you also keep other unwanted things in the universe.

If reason is you cannot transform these into a better shape, it's an unbalanced creature in itself and no further experience will solve it.

Another point I would like to say is that giving many excuses will not solve the issue either because induction does not take place in here. Human beings can transform, he must do as well (judging by his decision to authorize Zeus, it's the rational conclusion that he wants things to be in Zeus the Fragment's will, same as we say we want one thing but our logic says other things). He can, in this case, as he divided himself, also transform himself.

Why do you think experience and self-knowledge conflicts with following paterns? And why do you think that this "300 IQ super advanced civilization of moth-like beings" may not exist on a planet far away? You know that earth is not the only planet with intelligent beings, right?

Induction. No one ever claimed talking to 300 IQ moths. All examples we saw were "humanoid". Yes, it does not set to zero the possibility but it would be like saying "Yes, many trees did not talk but they can talk with a mouth". We have to make a conclusion in here, and by the data we have, it would be conclusion. Otherwise, I can tell you that there is a galaxy in banana shape (although all galaxies we know have spiral shapes) but it would not be logical.

Because as I said, the being is not separate from us. We are that being and everything is that being. In Pantheism, "god" is not separate from the world and from humans, but it's all of us and everything.

I don't think experience level is same. A little fragment's happiness and whole being's happiness is not the same. Same, by logic and experience we had until this day, I can tell submerging your finger into something and then tasting is different, and taking whole bite is different. In first one, you cannot have full experience in the first place.

It doesn't need time. Time only has meaning in a planet where it revolves around the sun and itself, and you measure days and years this way. From the viewpoint of the universe, it's all as it is. You can't measure days and time in outer space.

Again refer back to my first paragraph, as I said that according to pantheism "god" isn't an external being who plans the world, it just manifests as the universe and experiences itself. It's not separate from it.

When I talked about time, I meant the fragments.

It varies, actually. Some say he thinks, some say other things. Whatever it might be, what I say is not refuted. A human can introspect and even evoke the feelings, sensations etc. What is the reason this god cannot do this? As I said, in whole being form, it's more intense and he can analyze better.

Because you can't have sensation, consciousness and experience without matter. You need something to experience, and that's matter. Also, what makes you think that planets are just rocks with no consciousness? In pantheism, everything is divine, including the rocks. Pantheists don't see the rocks as inert matter with no life.

So in this sense, let's say this god is in soul-form, does it need a body to feel? Yes, maybe sensation would not be same, but I think still, the spirit's itself can feel. Otherwise it's sheer materialism with denial of spiritual experiences.

But let's divide these into two categories. Spiritual and material experiences. Still nothing changes. Whole body = better analyzing and experience. Also, isn't it enough of spiral galaxies? Where is bananas? I think he started to like them so doesn't want to change it.